What is PIP and how do I calculate it?
Moderator: Aitrus
Re: What is PIP and how do I calculate it?
Hmm, not sure where the math hiccup is then.
I don't really pay attention to the PIP anyway. Other than for a small pat on the back for how I've done over the past year, I don't pay it much mind. There's other things that are more worth worrying over in my TSP account / seasonal strategy.
I don't really pay attention to the PIP anyway. Other than for a small pat on the back for how I've done over the past year, I don't pay it much mind. There's other things that are more worth worrying over in my TSP account / seasonal strategy.
Seasonal Musings 2022: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=19005
Recommended Reading: http://tspcenter.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=13474
"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters" Epictetus
Recommended Reading: http://tspcenter.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=13474
"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters" Epictetus
Re: What is PIP and how do I calculate it?
Mr Snrub,
Go to your TSP account and look at the Activity Summary and see if your loan payments are included in the Contributions and Additions. Then change the Period to 01/01/2016 thru 12/31/2016 and compare the numbers to your calculated numbers.
Change period to 03/01/2016 to 02/28/2017 and divide your Total Gain by (Beginning Balance + half of Contributions and Additions) and compare that to the latest PIP listed below on Account Balance page that recently posted. This should give you a better understanding of how they handle your loan payments
Go to your TSP account and look at the Activity Summary and see if your loan payments are included in the Contributions and Additions. Then change the Period to 01/01/2016 thru 12/31/2016 and compare the numbers to your calculated numbers.
Change period to 03/01/2016 to 02/28/2017 and divide your Total Gain by (Beginning Balance + half of Contributions and Additions) and compare that to the latest PIP listed below on Account Balance page that recently posted. This should give you a better understanding of how they handle your loan payments
Re: What is PIP and how do I calculate it?
evilanne wrote:Mr Snrub,
Go to your TSP account and look at the Activity Summary and see if your loan payments are included in the Contributions and Additions. Then change the Period to 01/01/2016 thru 12/31/2016 and compare the numbers to your calculated numbers.
Change period to 03/01/2016 to 02/28/2017 and divide your Total Gain by (Beginning Balance + half of Contributions and Additions) and compare that to the latest PIP listed below on Account Balance page that recently posted. This should give you a better understanding of how they handle your loan payments
Yes, the loan payments are included in Contributions and Additions. The numbers are exactly the same.
Total Gain: $13,151.21
Beginning Balance: $56,478.24
Contributions and Additions: $26,608.40
Total Gain / (Beginning Balance + 0.5 * Contributions and Additions) =
13151.21 / (56478.24 + (0.5)(26608.40) =
13151.21 / 69782.44358 =
18.846%
The actual PIP posted on the Account Balance page is 20.01%. The PIP I calculated earlier was 18.90%, slightly more accurate than this, but still off by over a percentage point.
Nobody knows what the market is going to do in the future. Stop asking. Just shut up and follow strategy #72033 to glory.
Re: What is PIP and how do I calculate it?
Appears they may be including all of the loan payments in the divisor (weighting it 100% or more) to calculate your earnings rather than factoring everything as your are.
Re: What is PIP and how do I calculate it?
So TSPers without any current outstanding loan payments the formula will work 100% accurately? It's only the loan payments that are causing the discrepancy?
Nobody knows what the market is going to do in the future. Stop asking. Just shut up and follow strategy #72033 to glory.
Re: What is PIP and how do I calculate it?
Mine has always been pretty accurate within < a 10th of 1% Calculation today was right on but I retired early last year and had very little in addition column and no withdrawals.
I went back and looked at my annual statements from 2014-2016 and my calculations using the data on the statement vary slightly from their calculation--difference ranged from 0.02% to 0.09% but when I was working full time, I just took 1/2 of the contributions rather than weighting each contribution which could contribute to any difference. Close enough in my book.
I went back and looked at my annual statements from 2014-2016 and my calculations using the data on the statement vary slightly from their calculation--difference ranged from 0.02% to 0.09% but when I was working full time, I just took 1/2 of the contributions rather than weighting each contribution which could contribute to any difference. Close enough in my book.
Re: What is PIP and how do I calculate it?
Well it took me over two months, but I am happy to report that I have found the solution. You have to use the Monthly Modified Dietz Rate of Return, where the weighted period is only one month, not the entire year. Here is a revised version of the same breakdown as in my previous post (1/1/2016 - 12/31/2016):
Monthly Return = (Monthly Ending Balance - Monthly Beginning Balance - Sum of all Cash Flows)/(Beginning Monthly Balance + Sum(all month's Cash Flows * Weights))
Therefore, the total PIP is (1 + JanuaryPIP)(1 + FebPIP)(1 + MarchPIP) ... (1 + NovemberPIP)(1 + DecemberPIP) - 1.
...which is exactly my Personal Investment Performance for the last twelve months ending 12/31/2016 as posted on the TSP website and on my quarterly statement! Yay!!!
Monthly Return = (Monthly Ending Balance - Monthly Beginning Balance - Sum of all Cash Flows)/(Beginning Monthly Balance + Sum(all month's Cash Flows * Weights))
Code: Select all
Beginning Balance (12/31/2015): $56,052.27
Date Description Amount Days in Month Day of Month Weight Time-Weighted Cash Flow
1/14/16 Agency Automatic (1%) 28.58 31 14 0.548387097 15.67290323
1/14/16 Agency Match (4%) 114.31 31 14 0.548387097 62.68612903
1/14/16 Employee Contribution 693.00 31 14 0.548387097 380.0322581
1/15/16 Loan Payment 169.03 31 15 0.516129032 87.24129032
1/28/16 Agency Automatic (1%) 30.05 31 28 0.096774194 2.908064516
1/28/16 Agency Match (4%) 120.19 31 28 0.096774194 11.63129032
1/28/16 Employee Contribution 693.00 31 28 0.096774194 67.06451613
1/29/16 Loan Payment 169.03 31 29 0.064516129 10.90516129
Monthly Cash Flow Sum $2,017.19
Monthly Ending Balance $54,471.46
Monthly Return Numerator ($3,598.00)
Monthly Return Denominator $56,690.41
Monthly Return -6.35%
Date Description Amount Days in Month Day of Month Weight Time-Weighted Cash Flow
2/11/16 Agency Automatic (1%) 30.05 29 11 0.620689655 18.65172414
2/11/16 Agency Match (4%) 120.19 29 11 0.620689655 74.60068966
2/11/16 Employee Contribution 693.00 29 11 0.620689655 430.137931
2/12/16 Loan Payment 169.03 29 12 0.586206897 99.08655172
2/25/16 Agency Automatic (1%) 30.76 29 25 0.137931034 4.242758621
2/25/16 Agency Match (4%) 123.04 29 25 0.137931034 16.97103448
2/25/16 Employee Contribution 693.00 29 25 0.137931034 95.5862069
2/26/16 Loan Payment 169.03 29 26 0.103448276 17.48586207
Monthly Cash Flow Sum $2,028.10
Monthly Ending Balance $56,478.24
Monthly Return Numerator ($21.32)
Monthly Return Denominator $55,228.22
Monthly Return -0.04%
Date Description Amount Days in Month Day of Month Weight Time-Weighted Cash Flow
3/10/16 Agency Automatic (1%) 30.76 31 10 0.677419355 20.83741935
3/10/16 Agency Match (4%) 123.04 31 10 0.677419355 83.34967742
3/10/16 Employee Contribution 693.00 31 10 0.677419355 469.4516129
3/11/16 Loan Payment 169.03 31 11 0.64516129 109.0516129
3/24/16 Agency Automatic (1%) 30.76 31 24 0.225806452 6.945806452
3/24/16 Agency Match (4%) 123.04 31 24 0.225806452 27.78322581
3/24/16 Employee Contribution 693.00 31 24 0.225806452 156.483871
3/28/16 Loan Payment 169.03 31 28 0.096774194 16.35774194
Monthly Cash Flow Sum $2,031.66
Monthly Ending Balance $62,390.95
Monthly Return Numerator $3,881.05
Monthly Return Denominator $57,368.50
Monthly Return 6.77%
Date Description Amount Days in Month Day of Month Weight Time-Weighted Cash Flow
4/7/16 Agency Automatic (1%) 30.76 30 7 0.766666667 23.58266667
4/7/16 Agency Match (4%) 123.04 30 7 0.766666667 94.33066667
4/7/16 Employee Contribution 693.00 30 7 0.766666667 531.3
4/8/16 Loan Payment 169.03 30 8 0.733333333 123.9553333
4/21/16 Agency Automatic (1%) 30.76 30 21 0.3 9.228
4/21/16 Agency Match (4%) 123.04 30 21 0.3 36.912
4/21/16 Employee Contribution 693.00 30 21 0.3 207.9
4/22/16 Loan Payment 169.03 30 22 0.266666667 45.07466667
Monthly Cash Flow Sum $2,031.66
Monthly Ending Balance $64,663.83
Monthly Return Numerator $241.22
Monthly Return Denominator $63,463.23
Monthly Return 0.38%
Date Description Amount Days in Month Day of Month Weight Time-Weighted Cash Flow
5/5/16 Agency Automatic (1%) 30.76 31 5 0.838709677 25.79870968
5/5/16 Agency Match (4%) 123.04 31 5 0.838709677 103.1948387
5/5/16 Employee Contribution 693.00 31 5 0.838709677 581.2258065
5/6/16 Loan Payment 169.03 31 6 0.806451613 136.3145161
5/19/16 Agency Automatic (1%) 30.76 31 19 0.387096774 11.90709677
5/19/16 Agency Match (4%) 123.04 31 19 0.387096774 47.6283871
5/19/16 Employee Contribution 693.00 31 19 0.387096774 268.2580645
5/20/16 Loan Payment 169.03 31 20 0.35483871 59.9783871
Monthly Cash Flow Sum $2,031.66
Monthly Ending Balance $67,910.39
Monthly Return Numerator $1,214.90
Monthly Return Denominator $65,898.14
Monthly Return 1.84%
Date Description Amount Days in Month Day of Month Weight Time-Weighted Cash Flow
6/2/16 Agency Automatic (1%) 30.76 30 2 0.933333333 28.70933333
6/2/16 Agency Match (4%) 123.04 30 2 0.933333333 114.8373333
6/2/16 Employee Contribution 693.00 30 2 0.933333333 646.8
6/3/16 Loan Payment 169.03 30 3 0.9 152.127
6/16/16 Agency Automatic (1%) 30.76 30 16 0.466666667 14.35466667
6/16/16 Agency Match (4%) 123.04 30 16 0.466666667 57.41866667
6/16/16 Employee Contribution 693.00 30 16 0.466666667 323.4
6/17/16 Loan Payment 169.03 30 17 0.433333333 73.24633333
6/30/16 Agency Automatic (1%) 30.76 30 30 0 0
6/30/16 Agency Match (4%) 123.04 30 30 0 0
6/30/16 Employee Contribution 693.00 30 30 0 0
Monthly Cash Flow Sum $2,878.46
Monthly Ending Balance $71,537.79
Monthly Return Numerator $748.94
Monthly Return Denominator $69,321.28
Monthly Return 1.08%
Date Description Amount Days in Month Day of Month Weight Time-Weighted Cash Flow
7/1/16 Loan Payment 169.03 31 1 0.967741935 163.5774194
7/14/16 Agency Automatic (1%) 30.76 31 14 0.548387097 16.8683871
7/14/16 Agency Match (4%) 123.04 31 14 0.548387097 67.47354839
7/14/16 Employee Contribution 693.00 31 14 0.548387097 380.0322581
7/15/16 Loan Payment 169.03 31 15 0.516129032 87.24129032
7/28/16 Agency Automatic (1%) 30.76 31 28 0.096774194 2.976774194
7/28/16 Agency Match (4%) 123.04 31 28 0.096774194 11.90709677
7/28/16 Employee Contribution 693.00 31 28 0.096774194 67.06451613
7/29/16 Loan Payment 169.03 31 29 0.064516129 10.90516129
Monthly Cash Flow Sum $2,200.69
Monthly Ending Balance $75,850.68
Monthly Return Numerator $2,112.20
Monthly Return Denominator $72,345.84
Monthly Return 2.92%
Date Description Amount Days in Month Day of Month Weight Time-Weighted Cash Flow
8/11/16 Agency Automatic (1%) 30.76 31 11 0.64516129 19.84516129
8/11/16 Agency Match (4%) 123.04 31 11 0.64516129 79.38064516
8/11/16 Employee Contribution 693.00 31 11 0.64516129 447.0967742
8/12/16 Loan Payment 169.03 31 12 0.612903226 103.5990323
8/25/16 Agency Automatic (1%) 30.76 31 25 0.193548387 5.953548387
8/25/16 Agency Match (4%) 123.04 31 25 0.193548387 23.81419355
8/25/16 Employee Contribution 693.00 31 25 0.193548387 134.1290323
8/26/16 Loan Payment 169.03 31 26 0.161290323 27.26290323
Monthly Cash Flow Sum $2,031.66
Monthly Ending Balance $77,798.83
Monthly Return Numerator ($83.51)
Monthly Return Denominator $76,691.76
Monthly Return -0.11%
Date Description Amount Days in Month Day of Month Weight Time-Weighted Cash Flow
9/8/16 Agency Automatic (1%) 30.76 30 8 0.733333333 22.55733333
9/8/16 Agency Match (4%) 123.04 30 8 0.733333333 90.22933333
9/8/16 Employee Contribution 693.00 30 8 0.733333333 508.2
9/9/16 Loan Payment 169.03 30 9 0.7 118.321
9/22/16 Agency Automatic (1%) 30.76 30 22 0.266666667 8.202666667
9/22/16 Agency Match (4%) 123.04 30 22 0.266666667 32.81066667
9/22/16 Employee Contribution 693.00 30 22 0.266666667 184.8
9/23/16 Loan Payment 169.03 30 23 0.233333333 39.44033333
Monthly Cash Flow Sum $2,031.66
Monthly Ending Balance $79,802.41
Monthly Return Numerator ($28.08)
Monthly Return Denominator $78,803.39
Monthly Return -0.04%
Date Description Amount Days in Month Day of Month Weight Time-Weighted Cash Flow
10/6/16 Agency Automatic (1%) 30.76 31 6 0.806451613 24.80645161
10/6/16 Agency Match (4%) 123.04 31 6 0.806451613 99.22580645
10/6/16 Employee Contribution 693.00 31 6 0.806451613 558.8709677
10/7/16 Loan Payment 169.03 31 7 0.774193548 130.8619355
10/20/16 Agency Automatic (1%) 30.76 31 20 0.35483871 10.91483871
10/20/16 Agency Match (4%) 123.04 31 20 0.35483871 43.65935484
10/20/16 Employee Contribution 693.00 31 20 0.35483871 245.9032258
10/21/16 Loan Payment 169.03 31 21 0.322580645 54.52580645
Monthly Cash Flow Sum $2,031.66
Monthly Ending Balance $80,441.75
Monthly Return Numerator ($1,392.32)
Monthly Return Denominator $80,971.18
Monthly Return -1.72%
Date Description Amount Days in Month Day of Month Weight Time-Weighted Cash Flow
11/3/16 Employee Contribution 693.00 30 3 0.9 623.7
11/3/16 Agency Automatic (1%) 30.76 30 3 0.9 27.684
11/3/16 Agency Match (4%) 123.04 30 3 0.9 110.736
11/4/16 Loan Payment 169.03 30 4 0.866666667 146.4926667
11/17/16 Employee Contribution 693.00 30 17 0.433333333 300.3
11/17/16 Agency Automatic (1%) 30.76 30 17 0.433333333 13.32933333
11/17/16 Agency Match (4%) 123.04 30 17 0.433333333 53.31733333
11/18/16 Loan Payment 169.03 30 18 0.4 67.612
Monthly Cash Flow Sum $2,031.66
Monthly Ending Balance $86,692.34
Monthly Return Numerator $4,218.93
Monthly Return Denominator $81,784.92
Monthly Return 5.16%
Date Description Amount Days in Month Day of Month Weight Time-Weighted Cash Flow
12/1/16 Employee Contribution 693.00 31 1 0.967741935 670.6451613
12/1/16 Agency Automatic (1%) 30.76 31 1 0.967741935 29.76774194
12/1/16 Agency Match (4%) 123.04 31 1 0.967741935 119.0709677
12/2/16 Loan Payment 169.03 31 2 0.935483871 158.1248387
12/15/16 Employee Contribution 693.00 31 15 0.516129032 357.6774194
12/15/16 Agency Automatic (1%) 30.76 31 15 0.516129032 15.87612903
12/15/16 Agency Match (4%) 123.04 31 15 0.516129032 63.50451613
12/16/16 Loan Payment 169.03 31 16 0.483870968 81.78870968
12/29/16 Employee Contribution 675.00 31 29 0.064516129 43.5483871
12/29/16 Agency Automatic (1%) 30.76 31 29 0.064516129 1.984516129
12/29/16 Agency Match (4%) 123.04 31 29 0.064516129 7.938064516
12/30/16 Loan Payment 169.03 31 30 0.032258065 5.452580645
Monthly Cash Flow Sum $3,029.49
Monthly Ending Balance $89,854.59
Monthly Return Numerator $132.76
Monthly Return Denominator $88,247.72
Monthly Return 0.15%
Therefore, the total PIP is (1 + JanuaryPIP)(1 + FebPIP)(1 + MarchPIP) ... (1 + NovemberPIP)(1 + DecemberPIP) - 1.
Code: Select all
PIP = (1 - 0.06346375)(1 - 0.000386)(1 + 0.067651236)(1 + 0.003800941)(1 + 0.01843603)(1 + 0.010803897)(1 + 0.029195875)(1 - 0.001088904)(1 - 0.001088904)(1 - 0.017195254)(1 + 0.05158567)(1 + 0.001504401) - 1
PIP = 0.098671065 = 9.8671065%
...which is exactly my Personal Investment Performance for the last twelve months ending 12/31/2016 as posted on the TSP website and on my quarterly statement! Yay!!!
Nobody knows what the market is going to do in the future. Stop asking. Just shut up and follow strategy #72033 to glory.
- repinda808
- Posts: 209
- Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:18 pm
Re: What is PIP and how do I calculate it?
MrSnrub,
I'm glad you found your answer. Great job!
I'm glad you found your answer. Great job!
2020 Seasonal Strategy 86299
Re: What is PIP and how do I calculate it?
Will it work for outflows if you take a loan if you are still working or monthly payments for retirees?
Re: What is PIP and how do I calculate it?
I can't verify that it works for monthly payments for retirees, but it does work for loan disbursements and repayments. I took out a loan several months ago, and I calculated my PIP for every month since I started work as a Fed, and the numbers match up exactly on all of my yearly statements.
Nobody knows what the market is going to do in the future. Stop asking. Just shut up and follow strategy #72033 to glory.
Fund Prices2024-03-28
Fund | Price | Day | YTD |
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F | $19.08 | -0.06% | -0.74% |
C | $82.21 | 0.11% | 10.55% |
S | $82.43 | 0.30% | 6.92% |
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L2065 | $16.38 | 0.02% | 8.37% |
L2060 | $16.39 | 0.02% | 8.38% |
L2055 | $16.39 | 0.02% | 8.38% |
L2050 | $32.73 | 0.01% | 6.95% |
L2045 | $14.91 | 0.02% | 6.58% |
L2040 | $54.38 | 0.02% | 6.22% |
L2035 | $14.34 | 0.02% | 5.79% |
L2030 | $47.67 | 0.02% | 5.38% |
L2025 | $13.15 | 0.03% | 3.43% |
Linc | $25.61 | 0.03% | 2.82% |