2019 Federal Pay Freeze

General TSP Discussion.

Moderator: Aitrus

mindofmush
Posts: 353
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:38 pm

Re: 2019 Federal Pay Freeze

Post by mindofmush »

Republicans...democraps...they're all just politicians and most politicians are lawyers which is another word for liars. If writing to your Congress person doesn't help, maybe you should bribe your favorite media hack for better press.
mo meng, mo ching (which loosely means: no money, no life)

novak
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: 2019 Federal Pay Freeze

Post by novak »

Yep, we all know bribery works well in DC!

phalanx
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:24 pm

Re: 2019 Federal Pay Freeze

Post by phalanx »

Scout wrote:It is not hard to imagine the federal workforce is over-paid, and it is a fact we receive benefits packages exceeding private industry by a whopping margin.
Absolutely.....in SOME cases. It’s the problem with a one-size fits all GS scale. The bigger problem is that there are way too many federal employees.
As far as individual pay goes, there are also many cases where the gov pays GS-er 100k and that person has a contractor sitting next to them doing the exact same job but getting 125k or more and some companies have better benefits other than leave policies.
If you look inside the DC beltway at what many GSers make in comparison to their counterparts....it’s not anywhere close. However, many talented GSers stay GS because of the stability and pension. Take that away and there is a massive talent flight out. Do you really want to underpay the FBI and like organizations?

I get it but I also find it irritating how the feds pay always becomes the path to reduce the deficit while the government wastes far more money elsewhere. Additionally, the military is a sacred cow where with nothing more than a GED folks can get compensation exponentially beyond their civilian counterparts. I took a massive pay cut going from military to civilian. I had no idea how big my pay cut would be until afterwards when you factor in all the additional taxes, healthcare costs, pension contribution, etc. And speaking from having ten years of military service, I can say the military is massively overcompensated and one of the most egregious offenders of wasting money.

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tyson8492
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:52 am

Re: 2019 Federal Pay Freeze

Post by tyson8492 »

On thing feds can do to protect our benefits is to join NARFE. They lobby on the feds behalf both active and retired feds to congress to impact our benefits and pay. The more people that join the more influence they have. Membership is only $40 a year.

FairfaxCo
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:19 pm

Re: 2019 Federal Pay Freeze

Post by FairfaxCo »

tyson8492 wrote:On thing feds can do to protect our benefits is to join NARFE. They lobby on the feds behalf both active and retired feds to congress to impact our benefits and pay. The more people that join the more influence they have. Membership is only $40 a year.
Agree. Been a member for years.

cooper
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:58 pm

Re: 2019 Federal Pay Freeze

Post by cooper »

Same here. They are hard chargers.

wdd09
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:29 pm

Re: 2019 Federal Pay Freeze

Post by wdd09 »

phalanx wrote:.....Additionally, the military is a sacred cow where with nothing more than a GED folks can get compensation exponentially beyond their civilian counterparts. I took a massive pay cut going from military to civilian. I had no idea how big my pay cut would be until afterwards when you factor in all the additional taxes, healthcare costs, pension contribution, etc. And speaking from having ten years of military service, I can say the military is massively overcompensated and one of the most egregious offenders of wasting money.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU. Well said.

I appreciate the military and what they do to protect my freedoms, but the biggest waste of taxpayer money is from the military. Not the feds. I read an article the other day saying something like 80% of the occupations in the military are non-combat roles. So we are spending all this money for 80% of the military to sit on bases at home and abroad and do what exactly?

If you're going to cut the feds benefits, you sure as heck better cut it for the military folks who aren't actually out there on the front lines fighting.
I follow a monthly seasonal strategy from gclapper (slightly modified). Its moves can be found by searching for strategy number #25727 on http://www.tspcalc.com

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Aitrus
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Re: 2019 Federal Pay Freeze

Post by Aitrus »

I don't disagree that the military has a lot of compensation. Nor do I disagree that the majority of the military members themselves don't see actual combat.

However...

Each and every one of them has signed a blank check that reads "Payable to the People of the USA: For an amount up to and including my life, should the needs of the Nation require it". Even though very few of them see combat, all of them could if all-out war were to break out. Just because the US doesn't cash all those blank checks doesn't mean that those people haven't signed on the dotted line saying that they're willing to pay the price if called upon.

In addition, consider all the other hardships that a normal US citizen doesn't have to deal with:

- going TDY or being deployed on short notice
- family disruptions: imagine growing up constantly leaving friends and moving to a new school every 2 or 3 of years, or being a military spouse that can't keep a stable career due to all the moves
- no such thing as overtime pay for egregious working hours: 12 hour days for 5 or 6 days a week is common on the AF's flightline
- extreme limitations on personal rights and freedoms: no CCW on base, personal weapons often must be stored in the base armory, 1st Amendment is curtailed for speech and assembly, must give up all 4th Amendment rights as soon as you step foot on base, drug use is illegal even if the state the base is in allows it, multiple zero tolerance policies that can end a career without any recourse for accidental infringement, etc.

I agree, some things can be cut back in the DoD. F-35 should have never made it past the drawing board, for example. Update and optimize the A-10 instead of designing a whole new platform from scratch or trying to replace it with a substandard product like the F-35. Get rid of contracts that significantly favor the contractor with heavy penalties for the government for any infringement but no penalties for the contractor who always goes over time, over budget and under delivers. Stop overpaying for services and products through contractors.

A lot of things can be cut, but gutting individual member compensation should not be one of them. The biggest thing I would strongly consider cutting back on is tuition assistance and funding for the Base Education Centers. The members already receive the GI bill, they don't need 100% tuition assistance as well. Especially not with today's inflated college prices. Some higher enlisted ranks require an Associate's degree (depending on service). Fine - provide free tuition and CLEP tests for those 101-level courses that are required for promotion, but nobody should be able to get a Master's or Doctorate for virtually free, which is what is currently possible.
Seasonal Musings 2022: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=19005
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wdd09
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:29 pm

Re: 2019 Federal Pay Freeze

Post by wdd09 »

I agree with some of your points, and disagree with others Aitrus. I'm glad folks can have a reasonable discussion.

I might add, however, that it's absurd that our military is completely and undeniably untouchable when it comes to improving our nations checkbook. Even more absurd when the politicians cut many programs in-house that affect the American citizen, and then just increase military spending by that exact amount. That doesn't improve our checkbook but it impacts constituents, and then the largest military in the world grows even more fat. I'm sure you can agree that that just doesn't make any sense when we continue to try to balance the budget on the backs of Feds.
I follow a monthly seasonal strategy from gclapper (slightly modified). Its moves can be found by searching for strategy number #25727 on http://www.tspcalc.com

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Aitrus
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Re: 2019 Federal Pay Freeze

Post by Aitrus »

I do agree with that - Feds can't take all the heat. But you can't solve the problem by gutting the military, nor soaking the rich by "making them pay their fair share" (what would be considered fair, anyway?). I would prefer that citizens don't pay taxes, but that's not the world we've lived in since 1913.

I think that it needs to be even across all fronts, and the solution is twofold.

First, reduce taxes on businesses so they can expand and hire more people (more people working means more people get taxed). Reduce individual income taxes so people can pay off their debts and buy more stuff. This stimulates the economy. A swiftly moving economy generates more revenue for the government. It has been the case each and every time that tax rates were cut in the US that revenue grew for the government.

Second, reduce government spending in every area until the deficit is no more, and we have a good surplus and well on our way to paying down the national debt. That means that everybody takes a hit, Feds included. Less money for the government all around. Pay freezes for military and Feds alike. Eliminate Federal agencies that aren't necessary or authorized by the Constitution. Once we have our financial house in order, then we can move forward again, only next time let's keep sanity in mind.
Seasonal Musings 2022: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=19005
Recommended Reading: http://tspcenter.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=13474
"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters" Epictetus

wdd09
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Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:29 pm

Re: 2019 Federal Pay Freeze

Post by wdd09 »

Interesting analysis here:
http://www.epi.org/publication/ib364-co ... ic-growth/

Main points:
Claims that the United States’ corporate tax rate is uniquely burdensome to U.S. business when compared with the corporate tax rates of its industrial peers are incorrect. While the United States has one of the highest statutory corporate income-tax rates among advanced countries, the effective corporate income-tax rate (27.7 percent) is quite close to the average of rich countries (27.2 percent, weighted by GDP).
The U.S. corporate income-tax rate is also not high by historic standards. The statutory corporate tax rate has gradually been reduced from over 50 percent in the 1950s to its current 35 percent.
The current U.S. corporate tax rate does not appear to be impeding corporate profits. Both before-tax and after-tax corporate profits as a percentage of national income are at post–World War II highs; they were 13.6 percent and 11.4 percent, respectively, in 2012.
Lowering the corporate income-tax rate would not spur economic growth. The analysis finds no evidence that high corporate tax rates have a negative impact on economic growth (i.e., it finds no evidence that changes in either the statutory corporate tax rate or the effective marginal tax rate on capital income are correlated with economic growth).
I follow a monthly seasonal strategy from gclapper (slightly modified). Its moves can be found by searching for strategy number #25727 on http://www.tspcalc.com

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evilanne
Posts: 2067
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Re: 2019 Federal Pay Freeze

Post by evilanne »

wdd09 wrote:
phalanx wrote:.....Additionally, the military is a sacred cow where with nothing more than a GED folks can get compensation exponentially beyond their civilian counterparts. I took a massive pay cut going from military to civilian. I had no idea how big my pay cut would be until afterwards when you factor in all the additional taxes, healthcare costs, pension contribution, etc. And speaking from having ten years of military service, I can say the military is massively overcompensated and one of the most egregious offenders of wasting money.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU. Well said.

I appreciate the military and what they do to protect my freedoms, but the biggest waste of taxpayer money is from the military. Not the feds. I read an article the other day saying something like 80% of the occupations in the military are non-combat roles. So we are spending all this money for 80% of the military to sit on bases at home and abroad and do what exactly?

If you're going to cut the feds benefits, you sure as heck better cut it for the military folks who aren't actually out there on the front lines fighting.
A lot of it is political plus too much redundancy. You have 3 major services that have many support organizations doing the same thing and various command structures/overhead--everything from Manpower/Personnel, to Plans, Operations & Logistic to Training & Finance. There has been some consolidations over the years (e.g. DFAS, Base Closures, Joint Basing, Joint Development etc.) but most organizations have people that coordinate or interface with those organizations. Politicians don't want to close anything in their districts (whether or not it is critical need of the military) and each service has there own politics with someone always trying to expand their own control or make their mark on how things should be done. I have long believed that some functions should be purple suiters rather than each service having their own cadre of personnel performing the same function. One thing that would help to reduce waste and long term government costs while increasing efficiency is to get away from 1 year appropriations which often creates more unnecessary work, especially when you have multiple CRAs.

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Aitrus
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Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:03 pm

Re: 2019 Federal Pay Freeze

Post by Aitrus »

wdd09 wrote:Interesting analysis here:
http://www.epi.org/publication/ib364-co ... ic-growth/

Main points:
Claims that the United States’ corporate tax rate is uniquely burdensome to U.S. business when compared with the corporate tax rates of its industrial peers are incorrect. While the United States has one of the highest statutory corporate income-tax rates among advanced countries, the effective corporate income-tax rate (27.7 percent) is quite close to the average of rich countries (27.2 percent, weighted by GDP).
The U.S. corporate income-tax rate is also not high by historic standards. The statutory corporate tax rate has gradually been reduced from over 50 percent in the 1950s to its current 35 percent.
The current U.S. corporate tax rate does not appear to be impeding corporate profits. Both before-tax and after-tax corporate profits as a percentage of national income are at post–World War II highs; they were 13.6 percent and 11.4 percent, respectively, in 2012.
Lowering the corporate income-tax rate would not spur economic growth. The analysis finds no evidence that high corporate tax rates have a negative impact on economic growth (i.e., it finds no evidence that changes in either the statutory corporate tax rate or the effective marginal tax rate on capital income are correlated with economic growth).
If, as you contend, the corporate tax rate is the highest among industrialized countries, yet is still on par with them, then perhaps the supply side of the equation isn't the problem. Would you concede that perhaps it's overspending by our government on non-essential programs that is the cause of our debt?
Seasonal Musings 2022: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=19005
Recommended Reading: http://tspcenter.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=13474
"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters" Epictetus

23V23C
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:13 pm

Re: 2019 Federal Pay Freeze

Post by 23V23C »

Aitrus, your posts are well said. Anyone who has not lived and worked "behind the scenes" (long enough to have seen the inner workings) don't get it. Congress needs to hold DOD more accountable on "service contracts" in addition to those major weapon system procurements. Has anyone read the defense.gov contracts tab lately? It is crazy what is getting awarded. Labor category costs posted on all major defense contractor's websites range from $250K - $400K annually or more for advisory and assistance, aka staff augmentation, all paid by the taxpayers. Most of that cost goes to the company as "overhead" and the guy working barely gets a third of that at most. Lets clean out and cancel the overstated "service contracts" as our first step to cost savings.

LostNomad
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:13 pm

Re: 2019 Federal Pay Freeze

Post by LostNomad »

Drain the swamp.

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