Thoughts?

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bloobs
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Thoughts?

Post by bloobs »

  • Requiring new federal workers to be enrolled in the defined contribution TSP system rather than the defined benefit FERS pension system – which would give workers needed control over their retirement savings, ensure solvency for federal pensions and save taxpayers more than $235 billion over 10 years;
  • Computing a retiree’s benefit based on their highest five, and not three, years of earnings
    increasing the share of employee contributions to FERS over time; reducing or eliminating the COLA for FERS and the Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS)
  • Eliminating the Special Retirement Supplement (SRS), which provides additional benefits for retirees younger than 62 but who had a long federal work history;
  • Reforming the interest rate provided by the G Fund in the Thrift Savings Plan (TSP) to more accurately reflect the yield on a short-term T-bill rate.
Sound fair?

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Aitrus
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Re: Thoughts?

Post by Aitrus »

I understand that these ideas are in a Republican-side proposal designed to reduce government spending. Here's my thoughts:

1 - Should be a choice left up to the member. The choice should be whether they want to have a higher matching towards TSP and forfeit the FERS benefit, or keep the traditional 5% match / FERS setup.

2 - As long as this applies to new hires and not legacy employees. Those who signed up to work for X retirement calculation should receive X retirement calculation, not Y reduced calculation.

3 - SRS is available to a small cohort of people, and only for a few years anyway. It's a reasonable savings to cut it. The only other people who can get SS-based benefits early are those who have medical reasons to do so. I'd also be ok with reducing it to 50% of estimated benefits as a compromise.

4 - I have no problem with this proposal.

I agree with those who put forth these proposals: the government spends far too much. However, there are better ways to go about it that are more effective and not token gestures like these. There are programs (and possibly whole agencies) that should be cut, or do a flat across-the-board cut to program's / agency's budget (all sacred cows get bled - nobody's pet program is exempt).

Eliminating the deficit isn't enough. There needs to be a budget surplus so the principle can be paid down. And until we fix social security spending and Medicare / Medicaid / Affordable Care Act spending, it's all drops in the bucket. Those two programs alone make up over half of the government's spending.

With all that being said, this proposal has very little chance of passing. But I am at least glad that somebody's talking about doing something to make the economy - and therefore our pensions / retirement plans - more secure. The biggest threat is a collapse of the economy, abandonment of the US dollar as the basis of exchange, and runaway inflation. The US can't tax-and-spend its way out of the debt hole that's been dug, while at the same time I acknowledge that the needed cuts will be painful. The only moral thing is to make the cuts as equally painful to everybody as possible.
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bloobs
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Thoughts?

Post by bloobs »

My opinions are based on the following big picture. Here's a pie chart of the US Govt Spending 2023

Image

I'm sorry but Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are entitlements (meaning we all paid into it with our hard earned dollars) and it would plain be immoral to gut it. As a possible solution how about removing the cap that allows very high earners to NOT pay FICA taxes if they make TOO MUCH MONEY, approx over 170k a year? That's millions in lost SS tax revenue from people who can very well afford to pay it with minimal impact to their lifestyles.

Defense is the largest expenditure line item (of any well-developed nation in the world) and few disagree regardless of politics that there is massive bloat in it in terms of misappropriated funds. So much so, there is actually a DoD major sub line-item within it called "Defense spending-Discretionary" :shock: If govt decides to cut entire agencies filled with 10s of thousands of employees to save costs, it should start there.

Stepping further back, besides the spend side above, how about increasing the revenue side to pay for it? Most people agree that mega corporations are nowhere near paying their fair share of taxes like the rest of us. Amazon pay none and get to abuse their employees for it. That is literally billions of dollars in lost revenue from entities that WE ALL KNOW CAN VERY WELL AFFORD TO PAY IT AND NOT GO OUT OF BUSINESS. Corporate welfare is criminal and should never override social welfare. At least that is what I was taught.

Bubba
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Re: Thoughts?

Post by Bubba »

I love this suggestion:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/irs-taxes- ... 1-billion/

I just cannot understand why anyone would be against hiring more IRS people. Seriously, they just found another $500 bil that was going untaxed because of tax cheats. That's just a simple win. I'm sure all of us on this forum aren't rich enough to cheat...and we all pay our taxes. Why not have some more enforcement like this above?

I also agree that medicare and SS shouldn't ever be touched. We've paid into both and while they're the biggest programs, they're also solvent. Maybe some reorganization of SS could be possible. In fact, most people don't know that SS actually is a net receiver of cash...congress keeps borrowing from that fund to pay for their plans. (https://www.cbo.gov/publication/59340). I also agree that the cap should be raised. "A December analysis by the CBO found that eliminating the cap for earnings over $250,000 would keep the trust fund solvent through 2046." https://www.cbsnews.com/news/social-sec ... -cap-2023/

I would also be for returning the taxes on corporations to a higher number, I mean, for the most part they've thrown all their excess cash into buybacks and dividends (https://advisor.visualcapitalist.com/wp ... 0x600.jpeg). That's great for my 401k...but what if some of that cash went to pay down the debt instead?

There are many other options...what about returning the estate tax to something more "normal?" In 2017 each person received over $5 mil free ($10 million p/couple). Afterwards a tax of 40% was applied. Now that total is $20 million. https://i2.wp.com/financialsamurai.com/ ... d-2023.png.

Interesting thing here Bloobs. I was looking at how the debt can be paid down...your OP was all about changes to the Federal workforce that will supposedly (help????) the Federal government...do what exactly???

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bloobs
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Re: Thoughts?

Post by bloobs »

Bubba wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 5:49 pm Interesting thing here Bloobs. I was looking at how the debt can be paid down...your OP was all about changes to the Federal workforce that will supposedly (help????) the Federal government...do what exactly???
The purpose of congressional proposals that reduce/cut federal employees is for elected officials to pander to private sector employees who hoard resentment for us because their private sector employment does not offer quite similar benefits.

IOW - votes, at our expense.

Notice how these proposals pop up just before major elections. The fact that most of these do not subsequently pass is irrelevant--its main objective is to get them enough votes to be (re)elected in Nov.

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mjedlin66
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Re: Thoughts?

Post by mjedlin66 »

If we were to eliminate the cap for social security taxes, then would we also eliminate the cap for social security benefits? I am legitimately asking; because right now, income above a certain threshold does not get taxed by social security, but that same income doesn't count towards social security benefits, either.
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Re: Thoughts?

Post by mjedlin66 »

Bubba wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 5:49 pm I love this suggestion:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/irs-taxes- ... 1-billion/

I just cannot understand why anyone would be against hiring more IRS people. Seriously, they just found another $500 bil that was going untaxed because of tax cheats. That's just a simple win. I'm sure all of us on this forum aren't rich enough to cheat...and we all pay our taxes. Why not have some more enforcement like this above?

I also agree that medicare and SS shouldn't ever be touched. We've paid into both and while they're the biggest programs, they're also solvent. Maybe some reorganization of SS could be possible. In fact, most people don't know that SS actually is a net receiver of cash...congress keeps borrowing from that fund to pay for their plans. (https://www.cbo.gov/publication/59340). I also agree that the cap should be raised. "A December analysis by the CBO found that eliminating the cap for earnings over $250,000 would keep the trust fund solvent through 2046." https://www.cbsnews.com/news/social-sec ... -cap-2023/

I would also be for returning the taxes on corporations to a higher number, I mean, for the most part they've thrown all their excess cash into buybacks and dividends (https://advisor.visualcapitalist.com/wp ... 0x600.jpeg). That's great for my 401k...but what if some of that cash went to pay down the debt instead?

There are many other options...what about returning the estate tax to something more "normal?" In 2017 each person received over $5 mil free ($10 million p/couple). Afterwards a tax of 40% was applied. Now that total is $20 million. https://i2.wp.com/financialsamurai.com/ ... d-2023.png.

Interesting thing here Bloobs. I was looking at how the debt can be paid down...your OP was all about changes to the Federal workforce that will supposedly (help????) the Federal government...do what exactly???
I agree with better tax enforcement.

As to your paragraph about social security, it is not a net receiver of cash any more. The CBO chart you just linked clearly shows that. And yes, the social security trust fund is invested into government bonds, and the federal government pays back those bonds with interest. There is no funny business going on just because the trust fund invests in government bonds.
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Re: Thoughts?

Post by mjedlin66 »

[Posted in error]
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bloobs
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Re: Thoughts?

Post by bloobs »

mjedlin66 wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 7:46 pm If we were to eliminate the cap for social security taxes, then would we also eliminate the cap for social security benefits? I am legitimately asking; because right now, income above a certain threshold does not get taxed by social security, but that same income doesn't count towards social security benefits, either.
Yes, i would think so, since the primary intent of removing the SS tax cap is to mitigate the overall SS tax collection to SS income imbalance--and not to give more benefits to those higher income earners.

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Aitrus
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Re: Thoughts?

Post by Aitrus »

Social Security - The Supreme Court ruled in Fleming v. Nestor that people who pay into the system have no contractual right to receive benefits. Payments due are not "property," so it's fully within Congress' authority to reduce or eliminate it, despite how politically unpopular that would be. A reduction in benefits will happen automatically in a few years anyway, and none of the current popular proposals (raising the retirement age, raising the income limit, etc.) don't do more than kick the can down the road for a few years. The system relies on a growing population, and the US' population growth has stalled and is starting to shrink. SS needs to either be eliminated or undergo a massive overhaul in order to even be viable in future years.

Medicare / Medicaid / ACA - These three programs constitute the bulk of what's causing the increase in medical costs. When the government subsidizes something, the companies supplying it will raise prices because they know they will get whatever the government pays + whatever the customer is willing to pay. Compare that to before, when they received whatever the customer was willing to pay alone. Since this increase is across the board for everybody, those without significant government assistance sees higher costs that still must be paid.

A better solution: a voucher system. Each person gets $5,000 from the government to spend a-la-carte on medical costs for the year. How they spend it is up to them: buy an insurance policy, pay cash for every visit, bank the savings, whatever. Companies, hospitals, and clinics would be forced to compete and offer better value for the voucher dollars, thus lowering costs. By doing this we can eliminate the Medicare / Medicare / ACA programs and save tons of money. Government has no responsibility to care for the well-being of any individual except veterans, and that's only because the veteran served the nation as a whole and so deserves care provided by the nation as a whole. This gets government out of healthcare.

Hiring more IRS - This approach is supply-side, meaning more tax dollars, but it's done in a "two steps forward, one step back" kind of way. Hiring more IRS people means paying more salaries / retirement / benefits - all while government continues growing and causing more debt. While I agree that everybody should pay, the amount gained would be a drop in the bucket compared to what is spent on the budget as a whole. Once all the loopholes / scofflaws are found and closed / punished, there's no more to find - yet we still have to pay for all those IRS people. It's a losing proposition in the long run.

An easier solution: a flat tax on all income from all sources, no exemptions, no write-offs, no massive tomes of legal rules full of loopholes. The tax code should be no longer than the Constitution itself, and it can be calculated on a single page (unless someone has many income streams). Everybody pays X amount of their annual income from all sources (so even those who don't receive a salary have to pay their share), and everybody suffers equally.

Tax the rich / higher taxes on businesses - This won't work. First, if we tax businesses at higher rates, the costs will simply get passed on to customers. We're seeing this in California right now with the $20 minimum wage that was just enacted on certain kinds of restaurants - businesses have to either cut hours, cut staff, raise prices, or close up shop.

As for soaking the rich, a decade ago Bill Whittle explained how this wouldn't work in 2011 dollars. Yes, I know he's right-wing, but give him a few minutes because he has a point here: the numbers just don't add up, and we can't tax our way out of it, no matter how many IRS agents we hire. The problem isn't revenue, it's spending.

To save some time (and avoid some off-putting remarks at the beginning), he starts seizing all 2010 profits of ExxonMobile and WalMart at 2:50 and goes until 8:40, just killing off the rich to pay for a single year of spending.

https://youtu.be/661pi6K-8WQ?t=172

We have to face reality: we spend far too much. Until we admit that problem, we can't start fixing it. Nobody's pet program, favorite agency, or policy darling can be spared - everything has to be cut back, eliminated, or funding frozen at current levels (ideally, cut back to at least pre-COVID levels). It's going to hurt, but the longer we wait the worse it's going to be.
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NUC SHARK
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Re: Thoughts?

Post by NUC SHARK »

the problem with politicians is, especially democrats, is give them opportunities to spend more and they will spend more. so removing caps on OASDI will not solve anything , they will just spend more

bottom line is vote politicians who are more fiscally responsible….until that happens, relax all the caps you want…the drunken sailors will keep spending

its time for this country to vote politicians who know how to balance a checkbook and stop charging the credit card


after all - come to Jesus people - all this spending is why we have high inflation. stop falling for the false nice commercials and vote for fiscal conservatism…until then B$&@; all you want cause its only B)&(&..ing

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bloobs
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Re: Thoughts?

Post by bloobs »

Aitrus wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 8:52 pm Social Security - The Supreme Court ruled in Fleming v. Nestor that people who pay into the system have no contractual right to receive benefits. Payments due are not "property," so it's fully within Congress' authority to reduce or eliminate it, despite how politically unpopular that would be...SS needs to either be eliminated or undergo a massive overhaul in order to even be viable in future years.
That's immoral and inhumane for any developed society. The purpose of any functional government if nothing else is provide a safety net service for its citizens when tough times inevitably happens. Removing these protections that EVERY developed society (in Canada, Western Europe, East Asia and AUS/NZ) has in place relegates the USA to join the Third World nations that we mock so much. What's next, deeming public infrastructure, medical care, or education not a rightful service that the government to provide its citizens who seek it? Oh wait.....
Aitrus wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 8:52 pm Medicare / Medicaid / ACA...A better solution: a voucher system. Each person gets $5,000 from the government to spend a-la-carte on medical costs for the year.
Here's my reality. I visited the ER recently for an allergic reaction. I got an epinephrine shot, a blood test then was discharged in 3 hours. My insurance company was charged $8000 for those services; and they paid all of that amount minus my copay. Hospital tallied that atrocious amount sans any Medicare/Medicaid involvement. There is no reality that can prove those charges are actually justified. Can't imagine if I was laid-off service worker instead of some 6-figure earning bureaucrat with some cool-a$$ full-on PPO insurance for life. Regardless, if a single ER trip on day 1 costs one $8k, where do we get the money for the remainder of the year for other life medical emergencies? The core issue here is unabashed corporate greed of the powers that be in the healthcare leadership--not some well-meaning government regulation program like Medicare.
Aitrus wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 8:52 pm An easier solution: a flat tax on all income from all sources, no exemptions, no write-offs, no massive tomes of legal rules full of loopholes.....[unless if you] (t)ax the rich / higher taxes on businesses - This won't work....
Americans have to stop worshipping the ultra rich as some sort of god-like saviors of civilization--such as they don't need to pay taxes or go to jail or be accountable to the same degree as mere humans like us. They're just like us--except much more greedy and ruthless about getting what they want--even at everyone else's expense. That's why they retain Capitol Hill lobbyists, lawyers, media companies and PR firms to convince us that it makes perfect sense that their mega corporations' needs and wants are always more important than keeping a society as safe, healthy and well-educated as possible.

NUC SHARK
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Re: Thoughts?

Post by NUC SHARK »

like the old saying goes

one can easily vote into socialism / communism

but one has to shoot their way out

understand why guns are under attack? cause one will not be able to shoot their way out of socialism / communism… and the nice flowery rosey misleading commercials are driving us there

NUC SHARK
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Re: Thoughts?

Post by NUC SHARK »

the democratic agenda and assault against the 2nd amendment is not about individual safety…they couldnt care less…its about securing a socialist agenda. Big Red Bus fellow Americans….

PhilJohn
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Re: Thoughts?

Post by PhilJohn »

Could you imagine if the money they collected for your SS would have instead been made to be invested in the market in a personalized account? Id be over 30 years in by now. I wonder what that would look like. Probably not great for the political class. We really wouldnt need them anymore.

SS will never be gutted because right or wrong, that would take leadership. It will simply implode instead, along with our retirements when the dollar is replaced on the global market. Math does not care about morality.

And yes, the tax codes ARE set up to cheat. Powerful corporations OWN both parties. Hell, the presidents kid doesnt even have to pay taxes. The rules only apply to YOU! Personally though, I would love a flat tax, but not just on earned income, but unearned income as well, and at the same rate (Will never ever happen). No more BS non profits. No more aid packages unless a decoration of War is made through congress. (Notice we dont do that anymore)?

And yes, you will have to revamp and even abolish some Federal government agencies. Its too bloated and in some cases, corrupt.

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