Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

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cswift01
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by cswift01 »

Just had a realization. 45 associates with Alex Jones who believes there are lizard people. Maybe there is a literal belief in swamp people in the government?

I'll be the first to say "sssssssssssssss."

PhilJohn
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by PhilJohn »

cswift01 wrote:
Just had a realization. 45 associates with Alex Jones who believes there are lizard people. Maybe there is a literal belief in swamp people in the government?

I'll be the first to say "sssssssssssssss."
i work for the Government. Alex Jones is right. i think my boss might be one.

JDD4J4J
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by JDD4J4J »

More like an attack on federal employees and what remains of the middle class.

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cswift01
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by cswift01 »

JDD4J4J wrote:More like an attack on federal employees and what remains of the middle class.
Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one finding it odd that there is personal wealth being built at the expense of taxpayers. While I know it's always happened behind closed doors, when it's "in your face" and no one responds...well, to say the least I'm not shocked by what's going on...

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jlozano042
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by jlozano042 »

The best part, as is always with most articles, are the comments. :)

Scorpio70
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by Scorpio70 »

What's the middle class?

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cswift01
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by cswift01 »

jlozano042 wrote:The best part, as is always with most articles, are the comments. :)
Haha, I love when they start with good natured comments. Then, by the 3rd poster all hell breaks lose.

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ArrieS
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by ArrieS »

cswift01 wrote:
JDD4J4J wrote:More like an attack on federal employees and what remains of the middle class.
Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one finding it odd that there is personal wealth being built at the expense of taxpayers. While I know it's always happened behind closed doors, when it's "in your face" and no one responds...well, to say the least I'm not shocked by what's going on...
Will you clarify this? Not sure who you are implying is building this wealth.
OCTOBER: This is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks in. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May, March, June, December, August, and February. - Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar

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cswift01
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by cswift01 »

ArrieS wrote:
cswift01 wrote:
JDD4J4J wrote:More like an attack on federal employees and what remains of the middle class.
Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one finding it odd that there is personal wealth being built at the expense of taxpayers. While I know it's always happened behind closed doors, when it's "in your face" and no one responds...well, to say the least I'm not shocked by what's going on...
Will you clarify this? Not sure who you are implying is building this wealth.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/29/ivanka- ... tions.html

mindofmush
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by mindofmush »

From the mouth of Office of Personnel Management Director Jeff T. H. Pon:

Pon said. “ I don’t believe that we should look at a federal job for 30 years and then retire and then have, you know, lifetime retirement anymore.”

This is the same guy who thinks a COLA is Locality Pay and that he needs to take away "Locality Pay" from retirees.

I don't know what he means but then I don't think he knows what he means either. :shock:

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dougellen1
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by dougellen1 »

I'm a "senior manager" in the gov. It's about time we have the tools to get rid of people who truly deserve to be let go. It's rare, but the bad actors do exist. Why can't people see the reality of this.

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userque
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by userque »

dougellen1 wrote:I'm a "senior manager" in the gov. It's about time we have the tools to get rid of people who truly deserve to be let go. It's rare, but the bad actors do exist. Why can't people see the reality of this.
I believe there is push back against this for a couple of reasons:

1. The tools to remove employees are already there.
2. It should not be easy to remove employees.

Regarding point 1.

There is a belief that the tools to remove employees are already there. And that some managers are not motivated enough (or too lazy) or not competent enough to use them.

So rather than make it easier to remove employees (see point 2), more competent managers should instead be hired/trained. Why not just make it easier?

Regarding point 2.

It should not be easy to convict a US citizen; sentence a citizen to death; or 'sentence' a citizen to the 'economic death penalty:' removal/termination. It should require checks and balances; red tape; and bureaucracy. Why?

Because just as you say "there are bad actors," there are also managers who are bad/incompetent/biased actors.

Now, while you may be a perfect person and manager, a good manager, fully competent in all things related to your job and the jobs of those you manage, and without any biases--great or small--whatsoever: Not all managers fit that bill.

If we could somehow create a verifiably perfect manager (through genetic manipulation?), then these managers should be given carte blanche to fire employees at will--no questions asked.

But, if the removal is improper...they should be able to get their job back if improperly terminated.?

Maybe. The burden usually shifts to a guilty until proven innocent type of thing, whereby the victim may have to prove negatives with little evidence.

There are reasons our society increased the difficulty in proving guilt in criminal cases (beyond reasonable doubt) vs. civil cases (preponderance); one being the ability to return someone to the status quo ante in the event that justice fails.

We can't 'undo' an improper incarceration (or execution--of course). We can't undo the effects on the family members; the missed events (kids graduating, weddings, deaths, vacations, etc.)

The physical and psychological effects of an improper removal on the victim and the family are likely irreversible.

So to guard against this, and managers abusing their authority to end an employee's income stream. It should not be so easy to remove employees.

It's not like no employee has ever been removed before. It just take a competent supervisor/manager, effort, and a deserving employee.

If there is such a large number of bad actors around...maybe we need legislation making it easier to fire all these managers who can't seem to figure out how to remove "bad actors." :)
Last edited by userque on Wed May 30, 2018 2:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
"In the land of idiots, the moron is King."

ProduceMan
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by ProduceMan »

Userque, totally agree especially with point 2 and the tools are definitely already and have been in place for the managers/supervisors.
Moneys’ Money Making Money (4M)

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cswift01
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by cswift01 »

Honestly, we tell ourselves its easy to fire people in the corporate world, but that's not entirely true. There are tons of labor laws, the fear of being sued and firing costs that are taken into consideration with letting an employee go. Sure, in the at-will states firing happens all the time, but it has its hurdles. Of course, people also sprout out information about things they don't know... ;-)

Here's a great paper on comparing growth rates with business friendly environments (https://www.enterprisesurveys.org/~/med ... h-2006.pdf) and firing.

Also an interesting book on remaking the laws:
https://tinyurl.com/ya4a8nft

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