Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

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userque
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by userque »

cswift01 wrote:...Of course, people also sprout out information about things they don't know... ;-)...
Not sure if this is directed towards me. If so:

I never said it was easy. I actually indicated it requires effort and competence.

And as one who has been on both sides of the coin, and has represented federal employees at administrative hearings, etc; I certainly do know. 8-)
"In the land of idiots, the moron is King."

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ArrieS
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by ArrieS »

Ugh.

Why does it feel like no one sees the big picture? The argument isn't framed properly until the whole process is addressed. We do not have any solution if we only address the firing portion.

Okay, great, it's now easier to fire someone. But it's not easier to hire someone. The process to hire a replacement is still long and arduous.

We post a job opening. We get applicants. We conduct interviews. We rank them appropriately. We then pass them along the process and the potential hires get vetted. MONTHS latter we offer a job. The problem is they were looking for a job at that moment. Not three or more months later. So they have already had other offers. So now we are left in the position of going down the list to our lesser choices.

Without reforming this we are stuck in a vicious cycle.

Something that is deliberately ignored by the Republicans who seek to "reform" the system but fail to address this critical failure! Sure, make it easier to fire under-performing employees, but you better make it easier to hire good ones if you do. Otherwise you've changed nothing except undermine and destroy the country's ability to defend this nation since the largest employing agency is the DOD. The type of reforms Republicans are proposing are ultimately short sighted and destructive to national defense.
Last edited by ArrieS on Wed May 30, 2018 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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drifter81
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by drifter81 »

ArrieS wrote:Ugh.


We post a job opening. We get applicants. We conduct interviews. We rank them appropriately. We then pass them along the process and the potential hires get vetted. MONTHS latter we offer a job. The problem is they were looking for a job at that moment. Not three or more months later. So they have already had other offers. So now we are left in the position of going down the list to our lesser choices.
It's happening to me right now. I've been going through the hiring process since February, and am just about finished with it. Two weeks ago I received an offer for a position two pay grades higher in the same location. So now I'm about to drop the bomb on the first agency, and they'll have to send someone else through the same, lengthy BS I went through.

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ArrieS
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by ArrieS »

drifter81 wrote: It's happening to me right now. I've been going through the hiring process since February, and am just about finished with it. Two weeks ago I received an offer for a position two pay grades higher in the same location. So now I'm about to drop the bomb on the first agency, and they'll have to send someone else through the same, lengthy BS I went through.
But this is a good example. Because the only applicants that are most likely to accept this long process are the people who are already Government employees because they don't want to lose the benefits (pension) they already have.

I don't mean to imply anything about yourself or your motivation drifter81.

The process only favors keeping current employees but dues little to help acquire good employees. Desirable hires will be recruited long before most agencies get around to even being legally able to offer a job.
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cswift01
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by cswift01 »

userque wrote:
cswift01 wrote:...Of course, people also sprout out information about things they don't know... ;-)...
Not sure if this is directed towards me. If so:

I never said it was easy. I actually indicated it requires effort and competence.

And as one who has been on both sides of the coin, and has represented federal employees at administrative hearings, etc; I certainly do know. 8-)
I was joking about myself. I will rarely attack anyone, especially someone I never met. Thats just being polite...something I miss in the US...

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cswift01
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by cswift01 »

ArrieS wrote:Ugh.

Why does it feel like no one sees the big picture? The argument isn't framed properly until the whole process is addressed. We do not have any solution if we only address the firing portion.

Okay, great, it's now easier to fire someone. But it's not easier to hire someone. The process to hire a replacement is still long and arduous.

We post a job opening. We get applicants. We conduct interviews. We rank them appropriately. We then pass them along the process and the potential hires get vetted. MONTHS latter we offer a job. The problem is they were looking for a job at that moment. Not three or more months later. So they have already had other offers. So now we are left in the position of going down the list to our lesser choices.

Without reforming this we are stuck in a vicious cycle.

Something that is deliberately ignored by the Republicans who seek to "reform" the system but fail to address this critical failure! Sure, make it easier to fire under-performing employees, but you better make it easier to hire good ones if you do. Otherwise you've changed nothing except undermine and destroy the country's ability to defend this nation since the largest employing agency is the DOD. The type of reforms Republicans are proposing are ultimately short sighted and destructive to national defense.
Good point. It seems almost if there is almost a culture of "stick it to the fed." I think Obama missed the train on that one too, but prior administrations did a better job. I think the crisis was primarily to blame back then...

Funny how we get to the OP which was about the reduction of federal benefits.

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userque
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by userque »

cswift01 wrote:I was joking about myself. I will rarely attack anyone, especially someone I never met. Thats just being polite...something I miss in the US...
Thanks for clarifying.

Politeness...yes...I do seem to remember such a thing online many years ago. I think you had to dial up into a bulletin board via a modem.

I could go on about comparing politeness 'then' vs 'now' cross multiplied with 'real life' vs 'online' cross multiplied with 'aggressiveness' vs 'passive aggression.' But that's another topic. :)
"In the land of idiots, the moron is King."

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jlozano042
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by jlozano042 »

userque wrote:
cswift01 wrote:I was joking about myself. I will rarely attack anyone, especially someone I never met. Thats just being polite...something I miss in the US...
Thanks for clarifying.

Politeness...yes...I do seem to remember such a thing online many years ago. I think you had to dial up into a bulletin board via a modem.

I could go on about comparing politeness 'then' vs 'now' cross multiplied with 'real life' vs 'online' cross multiplied with 'aggressiveness' vs 'passive aggression.' But that's another topic. :)
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DVincent
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by DVincent »

For those employees who think firing other employees is “cool”:

Agreeing with your enemy (in this case: management) is the worm that eats you!

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cswift01
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by cswift01 »

DVincent wrote:For those employees who think firing other employees is “cool”:

Agreeing with your enemy (in this case: management) is the worm that eats you!
I guess I see it differently. I think we're all in the same boat, we're trying to serve the public. While I think 45's administration is fighting a war on federal employees, managers at all levels are trying to make their organizations profit the most possible for regular Americans. Some might call that idealistic, I would contend that people join federal employment just for that.

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DVincent
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by DVincent »

To: cswift01,

I concur with your reply. I just do NOT think that firing employees is ever "cool". Very often, people get fired for the wrong reasons that have nothing to do with their performance - It happens every day in private industry and government.


Carmen909
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by Carmen909 »

DVincent wrote:For those employees who think firing other employees is “cool”:

Agreeing with your enemy (in this case: management) is the worm that eats you!
OP here. I don't think it's cool at all. I think the chipping away at federal employee benefits in order to be more like private industry is a race to the bottom.

A friend of mine was terminated at his job a few months back. There was no good reason for it other than the boss was crazy. Then she lied about him when he applied for unemployment. She wouldn't pay his unused leave either. He lost his health insurance immediately because she timed the firing right at the end of the month. He was a great employee and didn't deserve that treatment. If the changes proposed in the article happen, even incrementally in small waves, my friends treatment is where we are all headed.

When the majority of people in our country are living paycheck to paycheck and have no savings for emergencies, I'm quite sure that creating an unstable job environment for employees is going to be quite devastating for all of us.

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userque
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by userque »

DVincent wrote:For those employees who think firing other employees is “cool”:

Agreeing with your enemy (in this case: management) is the worm that eats you!
To be fair,

All of "management" is not the enemy; just as all of the employees they supervise are not bad actors. (Even so, there may be particular locations/facilities/installations where this is arguably true.)

The true enemies are, imo: Ignorance, Incompetence, and Bias. These apply to all.
"In the land of idiots, the moron is King."

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Aitrus
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Re: Trump takes aim at federal bureaucracy with new orders

Post by Aitrus »

Well said, userque. I would add Lack of Integrity, Responsibility, and Work Ethic to your list as well.
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