Finally got myself a sheepskin

Civil Service Discussion.

Moderator: Aitrus

User avatar
12squared
Posts: 675
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:28 am

Re: Finally got myself a sheepskin

Post by 12squared »

Aitrus wrote:In total, the cohort was 18 months of 10 back-to-back classes consisting of a 4 credit hour class every 6 weeks, plus a 9 credit hour 12-week capstone course. One class at a time, but it was accelerated and compressed into a 6-week timespan. The classes weren't abbreviated (meaning, it didn't shirk on the standards), it just happened quickly, so we had to stay on top of our timelines and projects. 49 credits in 18 months.

I didn't really start pursuing a degree until early last year. I already had three Associate degrees from the Community College of the Air Force (CCAF) from my time in the Air Force. I have to do much of anything extra to earn them - mostly I just did my job and went to the training courses the military told me to go to (some of which earned college credit). I had four different jobs in my military career, and I was in three of them long enough to earn the credits necessary for an AS through the CCAF.

After the job-based OJT credits, I just CLEP tested the other requirements (speech, humanities, etc), and took a course here or there for those I didn't think I could test out of. Got the first AS in 2007, and the others were more or less automatically granted in 2016 and 2017 since all I had to do was apply to receive them. My AS degrees are in Explosive Ordnance Disposal, Education and Training Management, and Intelligence Analysis. The field I wasn't in long enough to earn all the necessary OJT credits was SERE Specialist, although I missed that only by a couple of months.

It wasn't until early 2019 that I got tired of trying to earn more than GS-9 on an AS degree alone. Even though I still don't see the point of requiring a degree for higher GS payscales when one has enough experience otherwise. I've been in the education field for most of my working lifetime (since roughly 2001) in one way or another, so I definitely have enough experience and knowledge of the field. I just figured I needed to stop fighting City Hall and play the game the way it's designed. So in late 2018 I decided to go ahead and check the Bachelor's box (especially since the AF offers some pretty generous TA to civil service members), and started classes in May 2019.

I didn't find any of the BS coursework very challenging, although I did learn a few things that I didn't know, however, I wouldn't say it was worth the cost of tuition to learn them. So I challenged myself by turning in projects that were 3-4x the required word count, included twice the number of required APA citations, dived deeply into the critical thinking and self-reflection aspects of the online environment, etc. I got my money's worth, but only because I made the most of the opportunity to learn - not because I didn't have the knowledge and skills already.

For perspective, I'm 40 now, working a full-time civil service job, and helping MJ with the forum.
Aitrus,
Very impressive. I suspect you'll do well if you decide to pursue further studies.

Based the extensive thought you've put into Seasonal Musings I was surprised to learn that this is your first piece of 4-ply collegiate parchment - the price of admsison to the next level of the game. While it does not guarantee success, it can keep the bolt from latching the door shut.

12²
“The genius of investing is recognizing the direction of the trend – not catching the highs or the lows.”
- Dean Witter

"Put all your eggs in one basket and then watch that basket."
- Andrew Carnegie

User avatar
12squared
Posts: 675
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:28 am

Re: Finally got myself a sheepskin

Post by 12squared »

mjedlin66 wrote: As far as the value of the degree goes, we could argue that all day long. There are people who think that non-degreed engineers should not be able to get my job via experience alone. I am not one of those people. We have engineers in my office who don't have engineering degrees, and they do the job just as well as I do. What the degree did for me 8 years ago was prove to my boss that I was capable, without needing to show 6-8 years of experience like the other guys had to.
One doesn't usually earn a degree in a STEM field without also learning how to learn, and to think logically. I know many who hold a master's degree who are not nearly as capable of critical thinking as some who hold a bachelor's. I have met new PhDs who are more green about how to approach real-world problems than others less credentialed, but with a few years of experience. I also know one PhD who previously taught at the collegiate level who claims that an advanced degree only gets you the minimum skills needed to start working in a very technical field.
“The genius of investing is recognizing the direction of the trend – not catching the highs or the lows.”
- Dean Witter

"Put all your eggs in one basket and then watch that basket."
- Andrew Carnegie

User avatar
12squared
Posts: 675
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:28 am

Re: Finally got myself a sheepskin

Post by 12squared »

IRQVET wrote: - Masters is good if you plan on going into private sector. If that is the case, I'd transfer to a better known school to bury your degree from Bellevue. Its not a bad school, but its not a well known school either. They came to be "known" around the age of UoP, so that stigma is strong with them; along with their acceptance rate, which doesn't help their reputation. If you go for your masters, nobody tends to focus on where you got your bachelors. You can get through the door by either your education or your experience. Better to have both, but if not, one of those better be exceedingly strong.
A masters is also a way to wipe the slate clean and make a 90 degree turn into new career. However, in the GS it generally only gets you a better starting salary.
“The genius of investing is recognizing the direction of the trend – not catching the highs or the lows.”
- Dean Witter

"Put all your eggs in one basket and then watch that basket."
- Andrew Carnegie

User avatar
jlozano042
Posts: 836
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:37 pm

Re: Finally got myself a sheepskin

Post by jlozano042 »

Awesome brother - congratulations.

It's party time ..... first round is on me!

Image

zenquest
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:17 pm

Re: Finally got myself a sheepskin

Post by zenquest »

Congratulations! It’s always inspiring read of someone setting a goal and actually accomplishing it. Whatever path you choose from here I sincerely wish you the best.

User avatar
bloobs
Posts: 1635
Joined: Tue May 21, 2019 8:00 pm

Re: Finally got myself a sheepskin

Post by bloobs »

jlozano042 wrote:Awesome brother - congratulations.

It's party time ..... first round is on me!
Below is Prof. Aitrus laying down the law.

Image

PhilJohn
Posts: 396
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:38 am

Re: Finally got myself a sheepskin

Post by PhilJohn »

That is awesome and congratulations. I am a first gen college graduate as well. I was planning on going back for my Masters but unfortunately, (or fortunately) I have been very blessed financially. I could go back just for the experience, but I know I probably won't. Something to be said about hardship and struggle. I think without it, a person tends to lose drive. Enough about me.

Congrats again. Very awesome.

User avatar
jlozano042
Posts: 836
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:37 pm

Re: Finally got myself a sheepskin

Post by jlozano042 »

bloobs wrote:
jlozano042 wrote:Awesome brother - congratulations.

It's party time ..... first round is on me!
Below is Prof. Aitrus laying down the law.

Image
Hahahaha ... science (or maybe sex-ed), next time don't move padawan! :lol:

User avatar
TSPking
Site Admin
Posts: 1066
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:02 am

Re: Finally got myself a sheepskin

Post by TSPking »

congratulations
TSPking

It's a gift...and a curse ~ Adrian Monk

Scorpio70
Posts: 432
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:49 am

Re: Finally got myself a sheepskin

Post by Scorpio70 »

It's too bad that there is limited opportunity where you currently reside, however moving is always an option. I know lots of people who chase grades, but I am not convinced that it is always worth it. Picked up a second Master's while working for the Government in my field, and it did help in a myriad of ways. People still call for advice, and I have been retired for two years now.

soccermoth
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:09 am

Re: Finally got myself a sheepskin

Post by soccermoth »

BIG Congratulations to you Aitrus! Your degree shows a remarkable level of discipline and perseverance. I am the mother of two college students and one graduate student. They are all online since March and so I know from their struggles that online classes are not easy.

23V23C
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:13 pm

Re: Finally got myself a sheepskin

Post by 23V23C »

Awesome, Congratulations!

User avatar
IRQVET
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue May 03, 2016 12:45 am

Re: Finally got myself a sheepskin

Post by IRQVET »

[/quote]
A masters is also a way to wipe the slate clean and make a 90 degree turn into new career. [/quote]

Very true, but usually it has to nexus off your original degree and be someone related. Not an absolute, but in most cases.
Operation Iraqi Freedom Veteran
Disclaimer: The contents of this thread are known to the state of California to cause cancer. (As they always seem to know more than the rest of us)

wisepierre
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:55 pm

Re: Finally got myself a sheepskin

Post by wisepierre »

So you were EOD, SERE, and Intel at different points of your career? That's quite impressive Aitrus, dang. Congrats!

User avatar
twinkc
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:29 pm

Re: Finally got myself a sheepskin

Post by twinkc »

Aitrus wrote:Welp, now I've done it. My BS in Adult Education from Bellevue University was conferred this morning. I earned a straight 4.0 throughout the 18-month cohort, but since it was all online and transfer credits / CLEP tests I won't receive any honors (not that this was why I went to college in the first place). As far as I know, I'm the first one on my side of the family to earn a degree. I probably won't ever catch up to my wife, though. She's currently working on her second Master's and will follow up with a terminal degree in her field. My oldest daughter is almost halfway through her own BA degree and hasn't even graduated high school yet (she's in her school's Running Start program).

Now it's on to looking for education-focused and/or curriculum design jobs in the DoD. My degree and experience lines up perfectly with GS-1740 and -1750 jobs. I've been on usajobs quite a bit lately. It will be nice to finally move on from the GS-9 level of pay I've been stuck at for the last decade.

I'm not sure if I'll pursue a Master's in the field. My professors think I'm solid Master's material, and would probably be a strong Doctorate candidate as well if I decide to go that far - but I'm not too interested in joining the formal academia / research publication side of things. If I pursue my Master's, it will mostly be so that I can teach at the college level - probably in online classes. Which wouldn't be a bad gig to have in retirement, honestly. Pull down a pension while teaching a class on the side to have something to do and have a little extra money doesn't sound like a bad way to spend the golden years.
Aitrus, congrats to you on your achievement! I recognize the amount of perseverence and discipline you must have had to earn your BS! It took me 10 years, before, during, and after the US Army. Seventeen years later I got my MPA (master's in public administration) from a fantastic graduate program at American Univ called the Key exec program. It's geared for feds, and my agency reimbursed me for the entire tuition as long as I committed to serve 3 years. (I finally retired after 34 years in the SES ranks!) The 18-month program was the best education I'd ever had. Like your experience, this Key program was cohort based. We met every other week on Fridays and Saturdays. It really filled in a lot of holes in my federal career since I had switched from biomed research over to administration and business management.

Speaking of GS grades and the DOD: In my experience, I have found (and corroborated) that [in general] DOD civil servants are payed lower than their non-DOD counterparts even though they may have greater responsibilities. For example, when I was recruiting for a budget analyst at the GS-12/13 merit promotion level, one of the applicants was a GS-11. He was a division budget officer in DOD and had been managing a team of analysts. Had he been on the non-DOD side, he would have been a GS-13, 14 or 15. You bet I hired him! Just saying, keep an ear out for the best places to work in the government---there are real differences among them.

I also want to mention a lesser known mechanism for increasing a pay grade: Even if one is already in the civil service, a federal employee can apply for a delegated examining (DE) position (open competitioin to the public) in addition to the usual merit promotion position. (Always recommend applying to both if both positions are announced.) Unlike merit based positions, the DE announcement doesn't require time and grade in service. And to take full advantage, look for announcements (DE and Merit) that have career ladders, such as GS-9/11/12, or GS-12/13 or GS-13/14. If selected under a DE position, an agency may be willing to hire you in at one of the higher grades in that career ladder if justification can be made.

Best of luck!

Post Reply

Fund Prices2024-04-18

FundPriceDayYTD
G $18.19 0.01% 1.27%
F $18.62 -0.30% -3.14%
C $78.45 -0.21% 5.50%
S $76.12 -0.20% -1.27%
I $40.67 0.02% 1.21%
L2065 $15.58 -0.13% 3.04%
L2060 $15.58 -0.13% 3.04%
L2055 $15.58 -0.13% 3.04%
L2050 $31.35 -0.13% 2.44%
L2045 $14.32 -0.12% 2.35%
L2040 $52.37 -0.11% 2.29%
L2035 $13.85 -0.10% 2.21%
L2030 $46.21 -0.09% 2.15%
L2025 $12.93 -0.05% 1.72%
Linc $25.28 -0.04% 1.51%

Live Charts

Pending Allocations

Under development. For now, you may view Pending Allocations by going to "fantasy TSP" and selecting "Leaderboard sort" of "Pending Allocations".