Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Civil Service Discussion.

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evilanne
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Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by evilanne »

Aitrus,
I love your posts. In a subpage to Swiss Policy Research link I posted previously has some really good info
https://swprs.org/on-the-treatment-of-covid-19/. They also have a link for "The Ivermectin Debate" There is also a good video showing both sides of the debate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_42LVirfNI
I found this too show a pretty good summary:
To resolve this situation and finally answer the question of the effectiveness of ivermectin against covid, several high-quality randomized controlled trials (RCTs) are currently ongoing, sponsored by large foundations or public funds. While rather late in the pandemic, these trials are certainly of crucial importance to settle the ivermectin debate.

Large and expensive RCTs may, however, come with their own intricacies. Specifically, RCTs may to some extent be “designed to succeed” – as was the case with some covid vaccine trials as well as remdesivir – or be “designed to fail”. In the case of covid – a multi-phasic disease with a very steep age-based risk gradient – a trial can be designed to fail by enrolling (young) low-risk participants, using a drug late instead of early, under-dosing the drug or in some cases even over-dosing it.

For instance, the ongoing TOGETHER trial of ivermectin, sponsored by the Gates Foundation, was caught using just a single dose of ivermectin, whereas successful trials used two to four doses per day for up to five days. The Oxford PRINCIPLE trial, meanwhile, was caught enrolling participants up to 15 days after symptom onset, at which point some high-risk covid patients are already dead. Of note, the Oxford group had previously “botched” several other early treatment trials.

An even deeper issue, however, is that almost all covid medication trials have been looking for a single “wonder drug”, whereas it is increasingly clear that severe covid is an auto-immune, hyper-inflammatory and pro-thrombotic condition, which in high-risk patients may have to be treated by a combination of drugs (and as early as possible). This is becoming all the more important as the long-term protection by covid vaccines appears to be falling increasingly short of expectations.

Finally, ivermectin is also a prime example of the media war that has been going on during the covid pandemic, with US social media platforms – most notably Facebook and Youtube – having censored numerous doctors, scientists and politicians supporting ivermectin, while the GAVI vaccine alliance has been buying Google ads discouraging its usex. Moreover, one of the major social media “fact checking” organizations turned out to have financial ties to a covid vaccine manufacturer.

In conclusion, the current evidence base concerning the use of ivermectin in the early treatment of covid continues to be positive, but important questions regarding the quality and certainty of many studies remain. It is to be hoped that ongoing high-quality RCTs will be able to resolve the debate. Given a still rising global covid mortality of currently about ten million people, if ivermectin is even just 10% effective against covid, its professional use could already have saved a million people.
It is interesting that there are manipulations on both sides related to many of the scientific studies that indicate political influence. It is true that you can find something to support either side and there are agendas and political forces at play related to many of the studies indicating how high the stakes are for some of the stakeholders. I doubt anyone is really concerned about your health or mine in the grand scheme of things.

I have no expectation to change people's minds regarding the vaccines...once you head down that road there is no going back. Once you are a pickle, there is no going back to being a cucumber.

Unfortunately we do not know what the outcome will be in the long term. The only certainty is that the Pharmaceutical companies will make lots of money from the vaccines and for any adverse medical conditions caused by those vaccines--there are drugs and treatments that will drive up medical costs even further. https://rumble.com/vo086z-proof-that-bi ... -news.html

Personally, I saw that there was an agenda that became evident in late March 2020 when they attacked Hydroxychloroquine and every other therapeutic anyone raised after that. In April 2020 I suggested doing RCTs on HCQ as prophylactic, viewtopic.php?f=14&t=17881&p=84173&hili ... ine#p84173 when Cuomo was on TV daily spreading fear and releasing seniors back in to nursing homes rather than utilizing the field hospitals built for the COVID overflow. The truth is they didn't want anything other than fear and the only acceptable long term solution was the vaccine. Funny thing is that those who said that they would never take take a vaccine created under Trump are now the ones pushing it and want it mandated for everyone, even when it doesn't make sense for those with natural immunity or young people.

I don't know how many times Trump was call a Fascist or a Nazi over the last 5 years, but he has always said taking the vaccine is an individual choice. Biden signs an Executive Order mandating these experimental vaccines for Federal Employees and employers with more than 100 employees and we don't hear similar rhetoric from the liberals? Didn't the Nuremberg code http://www.cirp.org/library/ethics/nuremberg/ originate from the atrocities under Hitler? Who's the real Nazi?

They are dividing us further...the vaccinated vs the unvaccinated. Those that support individual freedom, anyone against the mandatory vaccines and even parents complaining to school boards about masks on children or CRT are now being labeled "domestic terrorists" :shock: MSM & Social Media with widespread censorship is the new Pravda. I believe we should fear this much more than any virus that has less than a 1% chance of killing those under 65.

Whether or not you are vaccinated or not, there are treatment protocols that can effectively treat COVID. I don't want anyone here to get COVID but if they do I hope they will seek early treatment to avoid hospitalization and live long enough to enjoy the fruit of their labor in retirement someday.

Happy Trails

tspwizard1
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by tspwizard1 »

evilanne wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:39 am Aitrus,
I love your posts. In a subpage to Swiss Policy Research link I posted previously has some really good info
https://swprs.org/on-the-treatment-of-covid-19/. They also have a link for "The Ivermectin Debate" There is also a good video showing both sides of the debate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_42LVirfNI
I found this too show a pretty good summary:
To resolve this situation and finally answer the question of the effectiveness of ivermectin against covid, several high-quality randomized controlled trials (RCTs) are currently ongoing, sponsored by large foundations or public funds. While rather late in the pandemic, these trials are certainly of crucial importance to settle the ivermectin debate.

Large and expensive RCTs may, however, come with their own intricacies. Specifically, RCTs may to some extent be “designed to succeed” – as was the case with some covid vaccine trials as well as remdesivir – or be “designed to fail”. In the case of covid – a multi-phasic disease with a very steep age-based risk gradient – a trial can be designed to fail by enrolling (young) low-risk participants, using a drug late instead of early, under-dosing the drug or in some cases even over-dosing it.

For instance, the ongoing TOGETHER trial of ivermectin, sponsored by the Gates Foundation, was caught using just a single dose of ivermectin, whereas successful trials used two to four doses per day for up to five days. The Oxford PRINCIPLE trial, meanwhile, was caught enrolling participants up to 15 days after symptom onset, at which point some high-risk covid patients are already dead. Of note, the Oxford group had previously “botched” several other early treatment trials.

An even deeper issue, however, is that almost all covid medication trials have been looking for a single “wonder drug”, whereas it is increasingly clear that severe covid is an auto-immune, hyper-inflammatory and pro-thrombotic condition, which in high-risk patients may have to be treated by a combination of drugs (and as early as possible). This is becoming all the more important as the long-term protection by covid vaccines appears to be falling increasingly short of expectations.

Finally, ivermectin is also a prime example of the media war that has been going on during the covid pandemic, with US social media platforms – most notably Facebook and Youtube – having censored numerous doctors, scientists and politicians supporting ivermectin, while the GAVI vaccine alliance has been buying Google ads discouraging its usex. Moreover, one of the major social media “fact checking” organizations turned out to have financial ties to a covid vaccine manufacturer.

In conclusion, the current evidence base concerning the use of ivermectin in the early treatment of covid continues to be positive, but important questions regarding the quality and certainty of many studies remain. It is to be hoped that ongoing high-quality RCTs will be able to resolve the debate. Given a still rising global covid mortality of currently about ten million people, if ivermectin is even just 10% effective against covid, its professional use could already have saved a million people.
It is interesting that there are manipulations on both sides related to many of the scientific studies that indicate political influence. It is true that you can find something to support either side and there are agendas and political forces at play related to many of the studies indicating how high the stakes are for some of the stakeholders. I doubt anyone is really concerned about your health or mine in the grand scheme of things.

I have no expectation to change people's minds regarding the vaccines...once you head down that road there is no going back. Once you are a pickle, there is no going back to being a cucumber.

Unfortunately we do not know what the outcome will be in the long term. The only certainty is that the Pharmaceutical companies will make lots of money from the vaccines and for any adverse medical conditions caused by those vaccines--there are drugs and treatments that will drive up medical costs even further. https://rumble.com/vo086z-proof-that-bi ... -news.html

Personally, I saw that there was an agenda that became evident in late March 2020 when they attacked Hydroxychloroquine and every other therapeutic anyone raised after that. In April 2020 I suggested doing RCTs on HCQ as prophylactic, viewtopic.php?f=14&t=17881&p=84173&hili ... ine#p84173 when Cuomo was on TV daily spreading fear and releasing seniors back in to nursing homes rather than utilizing the field hospitals built for the COVID overflow. The truth is they didn't want anything other than fear and the only acceptable long term solution was the vaccine. Funny thing is that those who said that they would never take take a vaccine created under Trump are now the ones pushing it and want it mandated for everyone, even when it doesn't make sense for those with natural immunity or young people.

I don't know how many times Trump was call a Fascist or a Nazi over the last 5 years, but he has always said taking the vaccine is an individual choice. Biden signs an Executive Order mandating these experimental vaccines for Federal Employees and employers with more than 100 employees and we don't hear similar rhetoric from the liberals? Didn't the Nuremberg code http://www.cirp.org/library/ethics/nuremberg/ originate from the atrocities under Hitler? Who's the real Nazi?

They are dividing us further...the vaccinated vs the unvaccinated. Those that support individual freedom, anyone against the mandatory vaccines and even parents complaining to school boards about masks on children or CRT are now being labeled "domestic terrorists" :shock: MSM & Social Media with widespread censorship is the new Pravda. I believe we should fear this much more than any virus that has less than a 1% chance of killing those under 65.

Whether or not you are vaccinated or not, there are treatment protocols that can effectively treat COVID. I don't want anyone here to get COVID but if they do I hope they will seek early treatment to avoid hospitalization and live long enough to enjoy the fruit of their labor in retirement someday.

Happy Trails
First off comparing any situation to the Holocaust really highlights your ignorance and immediately makes anything you say meaningless from the get go. Educate yourself.

Biden had to impose to vaccine mandate to STOP THE PANDEMIC. Due to millions of Trump GOP cultists and their constant spread of misinformation, conspiracy theories and general unwillingness to step up in the fight from the very beginning even when its something simple like wearing a mask. >700,000 Americans have died in this pandemic and that number had/has the potential to skyrocket this late fall/winter if we don't have the majority of the country vaccinated by then.

There is roughly 285 million Americans under 65 in this country. 1% mortality under 65 isn't that little of a number. Do some basic math.

285 million x 1% (.01) = up to 2.85 million deaths

AND the pandemic would continue to rage every year there on because immunity doesn't last forever if you survive the damn virus. Lots of people have gotten it twice!

I have no idea why you people think the way you do. No idea.

PhilJohn
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:38 am

Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by PhilJohn »

I wonder when I will get a response from HR regarding my exemption. I think a couple different possibilities could take place.
1) On or before November 8th.
2) Never going to happen.

More than 50% of our staff remain unvaccinated. We are below mission critical staffing numbers as it is. Simply put, I seriously question if they even have the ability to enforce the mandate.

acidfly
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:14 pm

Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by acidfly »

This is the man you trust with your vaccine, double masking, stay indoors, booster shots. Dr Fauci is a proven liar but it's disregarded. Critical thinking is lost in some people. But yet anyone who didn't want this vax is a Trump cultists lmao last I heard the BLM movement never liked Trump but they are agaist it, Black and Hispanic people are among the highest of non-vaccinated.

The report states NIAID spent $1.68 million in taxpayer funds to poison and "de-bark" 44 beagle puppies, force-feeding the puppies an experimental drug, cutting their vocal cords, killing and then dissecting them.

https://fox17.com/news/local/congress-m ... s-usa-news

Experimenters Fed Puppies’ Heads to Infected Flies, but That’s Not All Fauci’s NIH Funded

https://www.peta.org/blog/fauci-niaid-p ... l-testing/

I can already see the defense that's coming from certain people. You may as well defend Dr. Mengele or the Doctors in Unit 731.

History repeating itself. I dare you to watch, but you won't.

https://youtu.be/84HvbsTrS70

MarielDam965
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:23 pm

Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by MarielDam965 »

evilanne wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:39 pm I have actually posted quite a few research studies and information from medical providers that actually treat patients and have medical knowledge. What have you posted in support of your position other than your personal interpretation of the data set or attacking what others post. I gave you the NIH link that shows where Ivermectin is approved for treatment of COVID 19 but you said no thanks to the "Horse Medicine" showing that you are more influenced by MSM & Social Media than by any scientific information or studies.
I took the time to read your different posts on the subject I totally agree. I have my older brother who also works in the medical field and from the feedback, your information matches very well. Also, there is a large part of the population that is speaking out about the health crisis without having any proof. I think it would be better for you and for me not to take their words into account.

User avatar
bloobs
Posts: 1616
Joined: Tue May 21, 2019 8:00 pm

Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by bloobs »

MarielDam965 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:00 am
evilanne wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:39 pm I have actually posted quite a few research studies and information from medical providers that actually treat patients and have medical knowledge. What have you posted in support of your position other than your personal interpretation of the data set or attacking what others post. I gave you the NIH link that shows where Ivermectin is approved for treatment of COVID 19 but you said no thanks to the "Horse Medicine" showing that you are more influenced by MSM & Social Media than by any scientific information or studies.
I took the time to read your different posts on the subject I totally agree. I have my older brother who also works in the medical field and from the feedback, your information matches very well. Also, there is a large part of the population that is speaking out about the health crisis without having any proof. I think it would be better for you and for me not to take their words into account.
Hi there, i see you just joined TSPCenter yesterday and posted directly to this topic. Are you retired and live in Texas by any chance? Anyways, Welcome :wink:

tspwizard1
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by tspwizard1 »

PhilJohn wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:50 am I wonder when I will get a response from HR regarding my exemption. I think a couple different possibilities could take place.
1) On or before November 8th.
2) Never going to happen.

More than 50% of our staff remain unvaccinated. We are below mission critical staffing numbers as it is. Simply put, I seriously question if they even have the ability to enforce the mandate.
In the US government everyone can be replaced. Those unvaccinated folks will be out the door, and those positions flown on usajobs.com. Its that simple.

Optimus187
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:22 pm

Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by Optimus187 »

tspwizard1 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:57 am
PhilJohn wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:50 am I wonder when I will get a response from HR regarding my exemption. I think a couple different possibilities could take place.
1) On or before November 8th.
2) Never going to happen.

More than 50% of our staff remain unvaccinated. We are below mission critical staffing numbers as it is. Simply put, I seriously question if they even have the ability to enforce the mandate.
In the US government everyone can be replaced. Those unvaccinated folks will be out the door, and those positions flown on usajobs.com. Its that simple.

Hahaha. Nonsense. You have ports full of boats and connexes needed to be inspected and cleared and bridges full of trucks that need to be inspected for commerce and the economy is in the tank. You think they are going to fire everyone and put the economy in a death spiral. Good luck with that. I don’t know what fed job you do but obviously it’s not one that exists in the real world or involves logic.

“But muh USA jobs”. They still can’t fill positions allotted for the last 3 years, but fire everyone not vaccinated and hire people quickly. Not happening.

Midterms are coming up, so let’s fire everyone and have no groceries and gifts for Christmas. Good luck with that.

Good day

tspwizard1
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by tspwizard1 »

Optimus187 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:29 pm
tspwizard1 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:57 am
PhilJohn wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:50 am I wonder when I will get a response from HR regarding my exemption. I think a couple different possibilities could take place.
1) On or before November 8th.
2) Never going to happen.

More than 50% of our staff remain unvaccinated. We are below mission critical staffing numbers as it is. Simply put, I seriously question if they even have the ability to enforce the mandate.
In the US government everyone can be replaced. Those unvaccinated folks will be out the door, and those positions flown on usajobs.com. Its that simple.

Hahaha. Nonsense. You have ports full of boats and connexes needed to be inspected and cleared and bridges full of trucks that need to be inspected for commerce and the economy is in the tank. You think they are going to fire everyone and put the economy in a death spiral. Good luck with that. I don’t know what fed job you do but obviously it’s not one that exists in the real world or involves logic.

“But muh USA jobs”. They still can’t fill positions allotted for the last 3 years, but fire everyone not vaccinated and hire people quickly. Not happening.

Midterms are coming up, so let’s fire everyone and have no groceries and gifts for Christmas. Good luck with that.

Good day

I've worked for the gov long enough to know everyone and anyone can be replaced. The rule is the rule. If you want to work for the federal government you must be vaccinated. Folks had 90 days to get it done. If you want to join the army, send your kids to school, etc. there are vaccination requirements. This is no different. I'm looking forward to seeing all the new job possibilities on usajobs.com in a few months. What an opportunity for folks to move up the ladder. There will be plenty of gifts and groceries to buy at Christmas. Enjoy the fact the markets are at record highs. I guess without a bozo twice impeached ex-President bragging about it on Twitter folks are taking it for granted.

tspwizard1
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by tspwizard1 »

tspwizard1 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:52 pm
Optimus187 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:29 pm
tspwizard1 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:57 am

In the US government everyone can be replaced. Those unvaccinated folks will be out the door, and those positions flown on usajobs.com. Its that simple.

Hahaha. Nonsense. You have ports full of boats and connexes needed to be inspected and cleared and bridges full of trucks that need to be inspected for commerce and the economy is in the tank. You think they are going to fire everyone and put the economy in a death spiral. Good luck with that. I don’t know what fed job you do but obviously it’s not one that exists in the real world or involves logic.

“But muh USA jobs”. They still can’t fill positions allotted for the last 3 years, but fire everyone not vaccinated and hire people quickly. Not happening.

Midterms are coming up, so let’s fire everyone and have no groceries and gifts for Christmas. Good luck with that.

Good day

I've worked for the gov long enough to know everyone and anyone can be replaced. The rule is the rule. If you want to work for the federal government you must be vaccinated. Folks had 90 days to get it done. If you want to join the army, send your kids to school, etc. there are vaccination requirements. This is no different. I'm looking forward to seeing all the new job possibilities on usajobs.com in a few months. What an opportunity for folks to move up the ladder. There will be plenty of gifts and groceries to buy at Christmas. Enjoy the fact the markets are at record highs. I guess without a bozo twice impeached ex-President bragging about it on Twitter folks are taking it for granted. Economy in the tank!?! That is beyond laughable.

Optimus187
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:22 pm

Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by Optimus187 »

tspwizard1 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:54 pm
tspwizard1 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:52 pm
Optimus187 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:29 pm


Hahaha. Nonsense. You have ports full of boats and connexes needed to be inspected and cleared and bridges full of trucks that need to be inspected for commerce and the economy is in the tank. You think they are going to fire everyone and put the economy in a death spiral. Good luck with that. I don’t know what fed job you do but obviously it’s not one that exists in the real world or involves logic.

“But muh USA jobs”. They still can’t fill positions allotted for the last 3 years, but fire everyone not vaccinated and hire people quickly. Not happening.

Midterms are coming up, so let’s fire everyone and have no groceries and gifts for Christmas. Good luck with that.

Good day

I've worked for the gov long enough to know everyone and anyone can be replaced. The rule is the rule. If you want to work for the federal government you must be vaccinated. Folks had 90 days to get it done. If you want to join the army, send your kids to school, etc. there are vaccination requirements. This is no different. I'm looking forward to seeing all the new job possibilities on usajobs.com in a few months. What an opportunity for folks to move up the ladder. There will be plenty of gifts and groceries to buy at Christmas. Enjoy the fact the markets are at record highs. I guess without a bozo twice impeached ex-President bragging about it on Twitter folks are taking it for granted. Economy in the tank!?! That is beyond laughable.
This is what full blown TDS looks like folks. Guy isnt even around anymore but you need him in your life. Sad sad life. Unfortunately there isnt a vaccine for that for you to jump into right away. 🤣

Its cool to see someone that thinks the stock market = strong economy. Now thats laughable

User avatar
Aitrus
Moderator
Posts: 2391
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:03 pm

Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by Aitrus »

That’s enough you guys. Tone it down. We’ve had a good discussion up till now with few personal attacks. Get back to discussing the main topic or I’m locking the thread. And issuing bans as needed for instigators.
Seasonal Musings 2022: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=19005
Recommended Reading: http://tspcenter.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=13474
"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters" Epictetus

tspwizard1
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by tspwizard1 »

Ok, the reality is get vaccinated or there is the door! Party of law and order right?... Doesn't that apply to rules you don't agree with too?

Optimus187
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:22 pm

Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by Optimus187 »

tspwizard1 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:43 pm Ok, the reality is get vaccinated or there is the door! Party of law and order right?... Doesn't that apply to rules you don't agree with too?
Sure my guy. Whatever you say. 🤣🤣 . You make a lot of assumption and you know what that means.

Have a Good day

tspwizard1
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by tspwizard1 »

Optimus187 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:17 pm
tspwizard1 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:43 pm Ok, the reality is get vaccinated or there is the door! Party of law and order right?... Doesn't that apply to rules you don't agree with too?
Sure my guy. Whatever you say. 🤣🤣 . You make a lot of assumption and you know what that means.

Have a Good day
Your take on the US economy is also way off. Fact: the U.S. economy by sheer size is bigger today than before the outbreak began, with economists expecting the fastest rate of growth in decades — a clear green light for the financial system. Any other falsehoods you want to spread today?

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