Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

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Aitrus
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Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by Aitrus »

Acidfly,

That's going beyond debate and into personal attacks. Either contribute meaningfully to the conversation, or please kindly take a step back and allow others room to speak.
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Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by bloobs »

acidfly wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:32 am
bloobs wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:00 am Hello - can someone verify some statement about vaccine efficacy that I hope one of our apparently many vaccine or epidemiological experts on this board may have:

Both hospitalization and death rates for breakthrough cases are lower than rates prior to availability of vaccines.
Omg people like you are hilarious 😂. You soak about something and are proven wrong, your cherry pick one item out of multiple responses ignoring everything else. Throughout this whole thread there has been fact after fact cited but you want to ignore and change the topic. Now you are calling for this type of shit "our apparently many vaccine or epidemiological experts on this board". You have no credibility.
A simple "yes" or "no" (with meaningful qualifiers perhaps directly answering my question) would have sufficed. Also, please read my signature line. Have a blessed day.
Anger and intolerance are the enemies of correct understanding.
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If it's a choice between a difficult truth and a simple lie, people will take the lie every time. Even if it kills them.
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Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by evilanne »

I actually like this quote from your signature line. Although my interpretation of it related to the current topic is quite different from yours. Too many lies & propaganda that people are willing to believe. We really need discernment in this day and age.
If it's a choice between a difficult truth and a simple lie, people will take the lie every time. Even if it kills them.
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Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by acidfly »

Aitrus wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:03 pm Acidfly,

That's going beyond debate and into personal attacks. Either contribute meaningfully to the conversation, or please kindly take a step back and allow others room to speak.
My apologies.

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Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by bloobs »

evilanne wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:00 pm I actually like this quote from your signature line. Although my interpretation of it related to the current topic is quite different from yours. Too many lies & propaganda that people are willing to believe. We really need discernment in this day and age.
If it's a choice between a difficult truth and a simple lie, people will take the lie every time. Even if it kills them.
― Paul Murray
Okay.

Let us all try to get back on topic here since we all were buzzed by a perpetually angry fly, would you have something to say about my original post's hypothesis:

"Both hospitalization and death rates for breakthrough cases are lower than rates prior to availability of vaccines."

Yes/No?

PS - Aitrus, thanks for swatting.
Anger and intolerance are the enemies of correct understanding.
― Mahatma Gandhi

If it's a choice between a difficult truth and a simple lie, people will take the lie every time. Even if it kills them.
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Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by Aitrus »

bloobs,

Backhanded compliments like that (perpetually angry fly...thanks for swatting) are almost as bad as what acidfly did to you. You're insulting him at the same time as thanking me. Not cool.

I saw a problem, I addressed it. Nothing more to it than that.
Seasonal Musings 2021: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=18757
Recommended Reading: http://tspcenter.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=13474
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Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by bloobs »

Aitrus wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:43 pm bloobs,

Backhanded compliments like that (perpetually angry fly...thanks for swatting) are almost as bad as what acidfly did to you. You're insulting him at the same time as thanking me. Not cool.

I saw a problem, I addressed it. Nothing more to it than that.
Okay.

Would you (or anyone else for that matter) have thoughts or about this statement:

"Both hospitalization and death rates for breakthrough cases are lower than rates prior to availability of vaccines."

Feel free to verify or debunk it as you see fit.

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Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by KTSPcalc »

bloobs wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:01 pm
Aitrus wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:43 pm bloobs,

Backhanded compliments like that (perpetually angry fly...thanks for swatting) are almost as bad as what acidfly did to you. You're insulting him at the same time as thanking me. Not cool.

I saw a problem, I addressed it. Nothing more to it than that.
Okay.

Would you (or anyone else for that matter) have thoughts or about this statement:

"Both hospitalization and death rates for breakthrough cases are lower than rates prior to availability of vaccines."

Feel free to verify or debunk it as you see fit.
A Lancet article published today addresses your question, or at least takes on the effectiveness of vaccination against infection and hospitalization over time. It's worth a read (do your own research and whatnot): https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 8/fulltext

Lots of statistics based on a study of 3 million + Pfizer vaccine recipients in the Southern California Kaiser Perm. system:

1) For fully vaccinated individuals, effectiveness against SARS-CoV-2 infections was 73% and against COVID-19-related hospital admissions was 90%.
- - ie Vaccination decreases likelihood of infection and of hospital admission for breakthrough cases.
2) Effectiveness against infections declined from 88% during the first month after full vaccination to 47% after 5 months.
- - ie Vaccine effectiveness against infection weakens over time (you slowly lose immunity)
3) Vaccine effectiveness against hospital admissions for infections with the delta variant for all ages was high overall (93%) up to 6 months.
- - ie Even as the vaccine becomes less effective at stopping infection over time, it is still effective at keeping you out of the hospital (at least for the first six months, which is the length of the study)

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Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by evilanne »

acidfly wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:29 am I wonder if FEGLI will pay out if we as Federal employees are forced to get the vax and die.
I was discussing this with a friend and I'm not sure that FEGLI would pay out or not. I think it is more likely if you got the vaccine after it was mandated than if it was done prior to the mandate.

Since Insurance companies typically try to avoid paying out where ever possible, the fact that you "volunteered" to take the experimental shot(s) that was EUA, I could see them trying to get out of it somehow. With the lack of reporting to VAERS, however, if you did die from the EUA vax it probably will be attributed to something else other than the vax. Note: I don't think the supposed FDA approved version of the Pfizer vax is even available yet so everyone is still getting EUA shots.

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Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by evilanne »

bloobs wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:01 pm Okay.

Would you (or anyone else for that matter) have thoughts or about this statement:

"Both hospitalization and death rates for breakthrough cases are lower than rates prior to availability of vaccines."

Feel free to verify or debunk it as you see fit.
You are talking about two different variants so you are not comparing the same thing. My understanding is that Delta variant, which is pretty much the only one we now have in the US spreads more rapidly but is less deadly. Delta also has a much higher viral load in vaccinated patients than prior variants. Based on the FDA Hearing a few weeks ago, their studies show that the vaccine effectiveness drops after 6 months, particularly in 65+ age group, hence the need for the booster. If these shots were effective, you wouldn't have any breakthrough cases or deaths to report.

Finally, there is more awareness now that there are other treatments available that reduce the chances of hospitalization or deaths if provided early. There were only 200-300 deaths when Trump first mentioned Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) which has subsequently been proven to be helpful in combination with other low cost treatments. Other treatments like Budesinide and Ivermectin were also villanized and discounted because they couldn't get EUA authorization for the vaccines if there were other effective treatments. Monoclonal Antibodies, which also were given EUA status, appear to be more effective than any of the vaccines and can be given on an outpatient basis.


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Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by bloobs »

evilanne wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:41 am You are talking about two different variants so you are not comparing the same thing.

Noted. Thanks.
evilanne wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:41 am My understanding is that Delta variant, which is pretty much the only one we now have in the US spreads more rapidly but is less deadly. Delta also has a much higher viral load in vaccinated patients than prior variants.
Agree on delta's contagiousness. Technically, delta indeed has a higher viral load than previous variants in vaccinated patients. But this also infers that delta's viral load is EVEN higher in unvaccinated patients--so according to this metric, being vaccinated still presents a significant benefit in preventing spread.
evilanne wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:41 am Based on the FDA Hearing a few weeks ago, their studies show that the vaccine effectiveness drops after 6 months, particularly in 65+ age group, hence the need for the booster. If these shots were effective, you wouldn't have any breakthrough cases or deaths to report.
Correct, the DoD study shows a drop in vaccine efficacy after 6 months. But I have trouble understanding why you think a vaccine is not effective if it's only highly effective (meaning at >90+%) for 6 months? Also, don't you think that expecting any vaccine (or any medicine for that matter) to be only effective if it completely prevents breakthrough cases is an unreasonable expectation? Those are high-fallutin' standards there that no human enterprise has and can ever achieve.
evilanne wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:41 am Finally, there is more awareness now that there are other treatments available that reduce the chances of hospitalization or deaths if provided early...
This assumption that reactive care (e.g. better treatment of infected individuals) makes some sense. Alternatively, my assumption is that preventative care (e.g. 180 million vaccinated US residents) has probably made the biggest difference in reducing severe disease and death rates. Further, remember that vaccination rates among those most likely to succumb to COVID (elderly and immuno-compromised) has achieved herd immunity to those two demographics.
Anger and intolerance are the enemies of correct understanding.
― Mahatma Gandhi

If it's a choice between a difficult truth and a simple lie, people will take the lie every time. Even if it kills them.
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Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by acidfly »

Bloobs can you take the time to read and watch what Project Veritas just put out. I'd love to read your rebuttal to what the Pfizer scientist said.

evilanne wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:46 am Another release from Project Veritas https://www.projectveritas.com/news/pfi ... ccination/

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Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by VAmanBulls »

The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for. -Bob Marley

You ain't gonna learn, what you don't wanna know. -Jerry Garcia

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Re: Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees

Post by acidfly »

Has anyone gotten a firm response on what happens after Nov 22nd. if you still haven't gotten the vaxx? My command has not put anything out yet.

Also with Pfizer/BiNTech being FDA approved but not the Pfizer vaccine original formula. What if you don't have access to the FDA approved vaccine? For the EUO vaccines you have not legal recourse should something go wrong. Who will be held responsible for forcing us to get this vaccine?

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