Looking for comparable ETFs

Managing your TSP and alternate investment options after retirement or separation from service.

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crondanet5
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Looking for comparable ETFs

Post by crondanet5 »

that mirror the TSP share prices. Can anyone help?

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ArrieS
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Re: Looking for comparable ETFs

Post by ArrieS »

You mean the price and not the performance? I don't think you'll find one, the TSP is a mutual fund.

ETFs have a good reason to stay high priced. Like Vanguards S&P and SPDR S&P 500 at $198 and $215 respectively.

Being so expensive retail investors are less likely to sell, or sell less volume. This reduces volatility and the price difference between the ETFs price and it's asset value.
OCTOBER: This is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks in. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May, March, June, December, August, and February. - Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar

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evilanne
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Re: Looking for comparable ETFs

Post by evilanne »

I agree with ArrieS that there doesn't appear to be any equivalent based on price. You would think BlackRock would be most similar since they manage TSP funds, but iShares by BlackRock for S&P 500 equivalent is $217.15 vs $29.5104 C Fund. BlackRock is more similar to SPDR, both which are about 10% price of S&P 500 $2,161.74 (all figures based on Friday's close).
You could just just use a ratio to adjust for comparison--all are about 7X +/-0.35 times the TSP C Fund price.

ArrieS, do you really think that people are less likely to sell shares at the $200 price range?

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ArrieS
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Re: Looking for comparable ETFs

Post by ArrieS »

evilanne wrote:ArrieS, do you really think that people are less likely to sell shares at the $200 price range?


Yes, because there are studies that show it. It's one reason cited for why Berkshire created class b shares instead of doing stock splits to keep the price down.

But I don't say it's at the $200 dollar range if I remember it's observable in triple digit ranges.

It's psychological and financial.

Imagine you invested $2,000 dollars. The market went up 10%. If the ETS shares cost $20 dollars each then obviously, you have 100 shares at $22. You want to take some profits, so you can sell one or two of the shares.

If the share price was $200 each, you have ten, you have to sell a lot more of your position off by selling just one to take profits.
OCTOBER: This is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks in. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May, March, June, December, August, and February. - Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar

crondanet5
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Re: Looking for comparable ETFs

Post by crondanet5 »

So how does this mutual fund of Blackrock correspond so well to market moves at relatively cheap share prices? Surely some financial company would offer a similar ETF.

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ArrieS
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Re: Looking for comparable ETFs

Post by ArrieS »

crondanet5 wrote:So how does this mutual fund of Blackrock correspond so well to market moves at relatively cheap share prices? Surely some financial company would offer a similar ETF.


It's a mutual fund. The rules are different. It's not sold on the open market. You place the order to sell the fund, or buy the fund, and it's done after the close of market. So you are paid, or purchase, at what the value of the shares is calculated to be at the final trading price of all fund assets.
OCTOBER: This is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks in. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May, March, June, December, August, and February. - Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar

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evilanne
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Re: Looking for comparable ETFs

Post by evilanne »

Blackrock iShares are ETFs https://www.ishares.com/us/about-etfs/what-is-an-etf (which you asked about), as are SPDR and most brokerage EFTs. Many of online brokerages offer SPDR & ishares with no transaction fees...it really depends on where you have your account. see https://www.ishares.com/us/products/etf ... d&fr=43512 & https://www.spdrs.com/product/

crondanet5
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Re: Looking for comparable ETFs

Post by crondanet5 »

We're getting closer to an answer. But I see no ETFs with share prices similar to the TSP ones. Does this mean the TSP share prices are a sham?

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evilanne
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Re: Looking for comparable ETFs

Post by evilanne »

crondanet5 wrote:We're getting closer to an answer. But I see no ETFs with share prices similar to the TSP ones. Does this mean the TSP share prices are a sham?

ArrieS wrote:You mean the price and not the performance? I don't think you'll find one

evilanne wrote:I agree with ArrieS that there doesn't appear to be any equivalent based on price.

No, TSP prices aren't a sham. You just have to have a TSP account.

All index funds are based on the market, so for comparison, the relevant number is the index fund closing price each day. The lower the price, the more shares you need to have to have one share of the specific market.

Why are you looking for EFT with a similar price to TSP anyway?

crondanet5
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Re: Looking for comparable ETFs

Post by crondanet5 »

I want to set up a taxable equivalent to the TSP Program in Fidelity.; The problem is the ETFs I look at are priced at $200-$700 a share. That made me wonder how TSP share prices can be so cheap? How do they come up with their share prices and why can't I find comparable ETFs outside TSP Program?

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ArrieS
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Re: Looking for comparable ETFs

Post by ArrieS »

crondanet5 wrote:That made me wonder how TSP share prices can be so cheap? How do they come up with their share prices and why can't I find comparable ETFs outside TSP Program?


More shares, lower share prices. You can find mutual funds with prices around the TSP and the TSP is a mutual fund.

Besides ETFs, Vanguard Admiral shares for their S&P mutual fund have the same cost as their ETF 0.05%. Plus with the mutual fund you can buy partial shares, so you can invest every penny you have, so if you have $200 dollars, you can buy $200 dollars worth including partial shares.

The only downside is you need to have a vanguard account for admiral shares.

You can match C and S with Vanguard Adminral S&P and Extended Market Index Admiral Shares, respectively. Vanguards Developed Markets Index Admiral Shares seem to be an equivalent for the I fund.
OCTOBER: This is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks in. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May, March, June, December, August, and February. - Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar

crondanet5
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Re: Looking for comparable ETFs

Post by crondanet5 »

I like to buy and sell at will. Do these Vanguard funds permit me to buy this morning and sell this afternoon? As I've posted elsewhere nothing makes me happier than to buy a thousand shares and sell it 10 minutes later for at least a hundred dollars profit. Not high winnings, but if I repeat that 5 trading days a week I can bring home some bacon and help pay off the national debt.

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TopNotch
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Re: Looking for comparable ETFs

Post by TopNotch »

I believe with Vanguard ETFs you can't sell the same ETF more than 24 times in a calendar year.

Check out this article about why funds want a high ETF price rather than a lower price.

http://www.cnbc.com/2014/11/19/this-nif ... ommon.html
David Tepper - "There is a time to make money and a time to not lose money."

Warren Buffett - "Rule No.1: Never lose money. Rule No.2: Never forget rule No.1."

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ArrieS
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Re: Looking for comparable ETFs

Post by ArrieS »

crondanet5 wrote:I like to buy and sell at will. Do these Vanguard funds permit me to buy this morning and sell this afternoon? As I've posted elsewhere nothing makes me happier than to buy a thousand shares and sell it 10 minutes later for at least a hundred dollars profit. Not high winnings, but if I repeat that 5 trading days a week I can bring home some bacon and help pay off the national debt.


Have you thought about day trading options then? The profit potential is greater.
OCTOBER: This is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks in. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May, March, June, December, August, and February. - Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar

crondanet5
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Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:51 pm

Re: Looking for comparable ETFs

Post by crondanet5 »

Both Fidelity and Merrill have accused me of being a day trader. I told them they never refused my commission. Call me a nimble trader.

But I do want to find ETFs as cheap as the TSP share prices to put idle cash into. So far you guys have not come through. I hope you give your bosses better replies to their questions.
Until then, I believe the TSP share prices are rigged and we are not getting the returns/value we should be getting. Disprove me. Show me the ETFs.

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Fund Prices2021-04-16

FundPriceDayYTD
G $16.56 0.00% 0.34%
F $20.66 -0.21% -2.53%
C $62.57 0.36% 11.92%
S $83.28 -0.04% 12.24%
I $38.19 0.63% 7.92%
L2065 $13.71 0.39% 10.49%
L2060 $13.71 0.39% 10.49%
L2055 $13.71 0.39% 10.49%
L2050 $27.99 0.31% 8.45%
L2045 $12.79 0.29% 7.92%
L2040 $46.72 0.27% 7.42%
L2035 $12.36 0.25% 6.82%
L2030 $41.20 0.23% 6.25%
L2025 $11.71 0.18% 4.93%
Linc $22.82 0.08% 2.45%

Pending Allocations

Under development. For now, you may view Pending Allocations by going to "fantasy TSP" and selecting "Leaderboard sort" of "Pending Allocations".

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