Political News w/o Added Commentary

[Donzi4me]

YouTube Link

I love how Chris Wallace starts out that there is NO RECORD of mail in voter fraud happening.

Then goes on to explain previous absentee ballot harvesting, discarding collected ballots and a case in NC where an election had to be redone because of mail in fraud.

Who do you believe????

[jlozano042]

There are only two people in this world that I believe .... myself and Richard Heene!

[userque]

YouTube Link

I love how Chris Wallace starts out that there is NO RECORD of mail in voter fraud happening.

Then goes on to explain previous absentee ballot harvesting, discarding collected ballots and a case in NC where an election had to be redone because of mail in fraud.

Who do you believe????

Lol at the question.

I understood him to mean that the voters didn't cheat, but operatives (those handling the votes after they'd been mailed) did.

[Aitrus]

I took him to mean that there's no official record of voter fraud happening, but somehow there's somehow a lot of fraud anyway, as seen in the NC election. I took him to mean that the current oversight is not adequate, that there's not enough oversight or investigation into claims of fraud or inspections of the entire start-to-finish process. It's kind of like the coronavirus - if you don't test, then you can say that there is "no record of infections". That's not the same thing as saying that it's not happening.

[userque]

Ok, I made the extra effort to re-watch the video.

He said, "...there really is no record of massive fraud or serious fraud."

And he said, "...when people get their ballots and mail them in themselves, no history of fraud at all."

[userque]

I took him to mean that there's no official record of voter fraud happening, but somehow there's somehow a lot of fraud anyway, as seen in the NC election.

What part of the video led you to believe that "somehow there's somehow a lot of fraud?"

How are you defining "a lot" here.

Do you believe Trump's allegations that are the subject of the video?

Are you aware of the evidence Trump is relying on in making his allegations? If so, what is it?

I took him to mean that the current oversight is not adequate, that there's not enough oversight or investigation into claims of fraud or inspections of the entire start-to-finish process.

I watched it twice. Nowhere did Wallace suggest this. If you are referring to Wallace, where in the video did he suggest this?

If you are referring to the random narrator dude, did he offer any evidence?

It's kind of like the coronavirus - if you don't test, then you can say that there is "no record of infections". That's not the same thing as saying that it's not happening.

There are countermeasures in place, that's why people get caught. Wallace said there is no record with regard to people mailing in their own ballots.

What type of fraud do you envision one could do when s/he mails in their own ballot?

And what type of oversight or tests would you suggest, that aren't already being done, that would detect whatever your answer is to the immediately-above question?

[userque]

Report: Trump commission did not find widespread voter fraud 2018
https://apnews.com/f5f6a73b2af546ee9781 ... oter-fraud

"The now-disbanded voting integrity commission launched by the Trump administration uncovered no evidence to support claims of widespread voter fraud,..."

[userque]

Trump press secretary Kayleigh McEnany has voted by mail 11 times in 10 years
https://www.tampabay.com/florida-politi ... -10-years/

"The Tampa native has said it shouldn’t be available to everyone."

_____________________
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

[Aitrus]

Userque,

The part that makes me think that is suggesting that there more fraud is how he says that he's done a fair amount of digging, but hadn't found any official record massive or even serious amounts of it happening, then goes on to say that despite no record there are still examples where fraud has occurred that was serious enough to cancel elections. It seemed to me that in doing so, he's suggesting that since we know election fraud happens (due to his example) we would undoubtedly find more of it, but since we haven't investigated it there's no official record of it. He seems to be saying "Hmmm...now isn't that interesting...I wonder why this hasn't been investigated."

That being said, I found the full segment, not the clipped version that the YouTuber used in the video above. In the full segment, Chris Wallace makes his position on the issue more clearly, and I see now that I misinterpreted what he said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aNRXVy6Nfg

However, I still think there's merit in looking at the issue because I don't think that there are enough controls in place (see below for those details). Here's a recent story showing 15 elections that were disqualified due to mail-in ballot fraud:

https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/04/21/ ... n-ballots/

Here's a Florida Dept of Law Enforcement report on election fraud, in which it states that "...absentee ballets are the 'tool of choice' for those inclined to commit voter fraud."

http://www.ejfi.org/Voting/Voting-9.htm#miami1997.

Then there's my personal experience. My father passed away in July 2018, and I had all his mail forwarded to my home address so I could deal with any final issues. A few months after he passed I received an absentee ballot for him for a special election, even though I had properly registered his death with the county he lived in. That was an opportunity for me to commit election fraud, but instead I just wrote "Deceased" on the outside of the envelope and dropped it back in the mailbox.

My suggestion for oversight: in-person voting for all, reserving absentee ballots to military members and those living away from home of record. Such numbers of absentee ballots should be small - less than 5% of total votes cast, so any fraud enacted within those ballots should be very limited in terms of effect on the election. In addition, require that all states review voter rolls annually to ensure that deceased members are removed. Finally, to ensure that only citizens are voting, all non-absentee ballots cast in person must present photo ID to prove citizenship - this is not an undue burden on citizens (ID is needed to cash checks, use a credit card, apply for a job, etc.).

Perhaps I was a bit overzealous in saying that there's "a lot" of election fraud. However, it does exist, and I believe that there is more of it than we've seen, and that it should be looked at thoroughly. Chris Wallace even points out in his comments that there are holes in the system where fraud is certainly possible. If you disagree and believe that mail-in-balloting is reasonably free of fraud, please provide evidence to show that this is the case, and that current oversight measures (if any) are sufficient to prevent such fraud.

[userque]

...If you disagree and believe that mail-in-balloting is reasonably free of fraud, please provide evidence to show that this is the case, and that current oversight measures (if any) are sufficient to prevent such fraud.

Sorry for your loss Aitrus,

I wanted to respond to the last part of your post right away. I'll eventually get to the rest.

The onus is not on me to prove the ordinary; the status quo; the accepted. That's like me telling you, "If you don't believe that there is life on Mars, provide evidence."

But I would simply point you to the evidence; the conclusions of the Trump administration. Why would I have to do more than that?

(You used an unclear word. What's 'reasonable?' It's your word/question, you tell me. That's really irrelevant here, I just mentioned it so we can keep it in mind going forward.)

I believe the current evidence. If, like you, I believed outside what we know, then it would be up to me to provide evidence. You're, in effect, saying, "Hey userque, I got this conspiracy theory that I believe, prove it wrong if you don't believe it too." Doesn't work that way.

There is no evidence of massive or wide spread fraud. That's the accepted evidence. That's what I believe. Nothing is 100% secure. Banks get robbed, etc.

Sure, anything's possible. Quantum theory tells us that everything is possible; but every possibility comes with a particular likelihood attached.

I believe it is extremely improbable that mail-in voter fraud has been committed sufficient enough to sway the outcome of a Presidential election. That is what Trump's people have also concluded. Are you calling Trump a liar?

However, while researching this topic, I did find that illegal gerrymandering occurred/occurs sufficient enough to affect the outcomes of House elections, benefiting the Republican party.

Now, if you are truly gung-ho on preventing election fraud ... there you go.

I believe we still have some issues you haven't yet addressed, I'll eventually gather them up for you.

[userque]

As Protests and Violence Spill Over, Trump Shrinks Back
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/31/us/p ... floyd.html

"The president spent Sunday out of sight, berating opponents on Twitter, even as some of his campaign advisers were recommending that he deliver a televised address to an anxious nation."


__________________________
“In a democracy, people get the leaders they deserve.”

[Tomanyiron]

It's a shame we have to get honest news from another country.
Sky News Australia, "Far-left ‘fuelling’ violent protests across US"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjBpOWmwoNY

[Tomanyiron]

Giuliani slams Minneapolis PD, cities ran by progressives don't know how to police.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4Pu1GhBgKU

[Tomanyiron]

And the Fake News Award of the day Goes to MSNBC.
https://youtu.be/VjBpOWmwoNY?start=154&end=186

[userque]

Trump Tower’s 2010 Profits Magically Grew By $3 Million In New Loan Filings
https://www.propublica.org/article/trum ... an-filings

One set of reports listed the tower’s 2010 profits as $13.3 million; a second put them at $16.1 million. That helped the Trump Organization borrow $73 million more than it had before.


___________________
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."